Skip to main content

View Diary: Sunday Talk: No one could have predicted (267 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Indeed (8+ / 0-)

    I've been immersed in this subject for the last few months.

    I've lost count of how books I've read so far.

    In the more recent studies especially, this seems to be the consensus.

    A lot of previously inaccessible documents and other information have become available in recent years.

    -
    Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us.
    ~ Jerry Garcia

    by DeadHead on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 09:48:02 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  What's the general view of AJP Taylor these days? (6+ / 0-)

      He was extremely controversial when he came out with his book years ago blaming the British and French more than the Germans for making WWII inevitable. Is he still controversial?

      "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

      by kovie on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 10:09:04 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  In Recent Years (9+ / 0-)

        Historian Niall Ferguson has also made the argument that not much was gained by the British in fighting World War II.

        His point (not many agree with it, I certainly don't) was that Germany has been dominant in the European Union for the past few decades - more or less the same position that Germany was in by the summer of 1940 during Word War II after France had been defeated.

        Of course, Ferguson neglects to highlight the fact that in 1940, Nazi Germany was militarily occupying many European countries.

      •  I'm just going by what I've read. (5+ / 0-)

        Which isn't everything, it's a vast subject. And I'm not interested in revisionist stuff. Or holocaust deniers like Irving.

        That said, it does seem to me there were a lot of factors that contributed to Hitler's ability to rise to power, and his ability to continue his aggression unchecked.

        No one is more responsible than Hitler and Nazi Germany for the epic catastrophe that was World War II. I just wish the world coulda slapped that fucker down while it was still possible.

        -
        Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us.
        ~ Jerry Garcia

        by DeadHead on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 10:40:29 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Oh, absolutely (5+ / 0-)

          He and his co-conspirators were the proximate cause. But the British and French made a catastrophic mistake when they decided to take economic and moral revenge on Germany and destroy it thusly so utterly that it was inevitable that the forces of militant extremism would rise up from the mess they made.

          I imagine that knowing this might, in part, be what motivates someone like Obama to not be too ruthless in dealing with his political adversaries, let he radicalize them (and especially their confused and frightened followers) into a far more extreme version of what they are now.

          "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

          by kovie on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 10:45:19 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  "The Collapse of the Third Republic" W. Shirer (0+ / 0-)

          is a great read on the fall of France in 1940.  Parayized political parties, the wealthy backing street gangs and facism.

          One of Shirer's points is that France as the host of WWI had massive rebuilding expenses and Germany in fact paid very little in real reparations.  England and the US refused to draw the border at the Rhine at the end of the War and then refused to support France against Hitler's rearming.

          France, England and US were more concerned about Stalin than Hitler, and hoped that Hitler and Stalin would destroy each other before either of them destroyed Europe.

          Which brings up another great read: "Russia at War" Alexander Werth.  Stalin did make sure that Germany did not threaten Europe again for 50 years by cutting it in two and stripping east germany of industry.

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site