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View Diary: Reality and the post-debate responses (263 comments)

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  •  A lot of our folks argued (11+ / 0-)

    that even if we concluded the President lost the debate (which some continue to deny) it was better if we just went ahead and said he won anyway. So as to prevent a negative media narrative, or something along those lines. That would have been the same kind of error the Romney camp made: convincing yourself of things that are objectively untrue.

    The strong and instant fiery pushback from quarters like ours was a wake up call. That call was heard, accepted and corrections were quickly made. The second debate bore that out as Democrats were roundly supportive and happy with the second debate. The approach was followed up in the third which President Obama dominated.

    In politics, much like the mind altering substance business, it is always best to never get high on your own supply.

    •  And I would argue that the Obama team and Obama (5+ / 0-)

      himself are not stupid people.  They knew they lost the debate and while I don't agree in sugarcoating I also don't agree in having meltdowns which is what I saw far more than reasoned pushback.

    •  the same kind of error? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      vcmvo2
      That would have been the same kind of error the Romney camp made: convincing yourself of things that are objectively untrue.
      where do you ref?

      how do you define "winning?"

      does "freakout" = winning in your book?

      "From single strands of light we build our webs." ~kj

      by kj in missouri on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 04:13:29 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Amen, Brother (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kj in missouri

      We gotta tell it like it is.

      •  of course we do (0+ / 0-)

        and in that moment, we can also define what is "winning."
        being a liar and a puppet isn't "winning."

        i'm not at all against holding feet to the fire, that is our job, i think that is our responsibility and i accept it.    AND we also have a chance to define what is success and what is crap.  and that's where i think the progressive echo chamber went off the rails.  

        not that Obama was lackluster, he was.  but he didn't "lose" on substance.  and that was not pushed by progressives who were too busy echoing 'zomg we lost!' meme.   we are responsible for meme pushing, eh?  yes?   factual memes?

        "From single strands of light we build our webs." ~kj

        by kj in missouri on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 05:13:11 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Unfortunately, Substance is Relative (0+ / 0-)

          When Romney turns 180 degrees on every position taken during the primaries, and there is relatively no pushback, the average viewer just tuning will take that to be substance.

          The MSM surely isn't going to engage in forceful pushback, so it's up to the opponent. Obama didn't forcefully make our case in debate 1. He did in debates 2 and 3.

    •  i respect your intelligence. (0+ / 0-)

      and i think this is a straw man:

      A lot of our folks argued (6+ / 0-)
      that even if we concluded the President lost the debate (which some continue to deny) it was better if we just went ahead and said he won anyway. So as to prevent a negative media narrative, or something along those lines. That would have been the same kind of error the Romney camp made: convincing yourself of things that are objectively untrue.
      i don't think you'll see my point anytime soon, and i also think reducing opinions to a binary argument "sux/rocks" seriously reduces the left's ability to define society.   yep, that's how big i go with this stuff.  way outside the WWW box.

      we're not going to change the conversation by yelling louder or deluding ourselves that setting our hair on fire works.   slow, steady build-up of factual memes over a long period of time trumps a wrestling match any day.   example:  War on Women.  

      but i'm tired and not going to change or influence any minds here tonight.

      "From single strands of light we build our webs." ~kj

      by kj in missouri on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 05:56:56 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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