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View Diary: Irrational Waves of an Overreaction (207 comments)

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  •  When people from the red states (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    US Blues, SherwoodB, terabthia2

    start sending in more in federal revenue than they get back in aid is when I'll give a damn about their opinion about anything other than football, barbeque or XXXL fashion. Their GOP-voting majorities are among the stupidest people on earth.


    "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

    by kovie on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 05:53:19 AM PST

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    •  That attitude is not helping (4+ / 0-)

      People don't listen to or vote for those whom they resent.

      261.A wealthy man can afford anything except a conscience. -Ferengi Rules of Acquisition

      by MaikeH on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 08:07:02 AM PST

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      •  That's their problem (0+ / 0-)

        If they have a problem with reality, then I can't help them with that. I'm not going to coddle self-deluding idiots who don't know what they're talking about.

        Let them keep hiding behind their guns and imagined gods. The rest of us want to live in the 21st century. They'll like us when we run things again.

        "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

        by kovie on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 08:17:27 AM PST

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        •  Ah, but it's their god (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kovie, wasatch, elginblt, cotterperson

          who holds the key to unlock their minds. Of course it's painful to have to admit you've been deceived - hopelessly - but that's one thing about fundamentalist Christians... they already know they're sinners with weak moral constitutions. I have found that countering the blind hatred with a hefty dose of New Testament Jesus sometimes works. Because the true believers must always carry that undercurrent of doubt in their minds even if all they hear from their preacher/congre-mates is hate.

          Jesus warned them specifically that deception would be so rampant that if it were possible, even the elect would be fooled. None of them want to be counted amongst the fools in the end. And they're all feeling pretty foolish right about now.

          •  Expanding the frame of debate often helps (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            E.g. if you care about "freedom", does that not also suggest a responsible form of freedom? If you talk about limited government, does that not also suggest that our private conversation be kept private?

            "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

            by kovie on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 09:29:28 AM PST

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            •  Well, they've got this weird (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              cotterperson, leavingthezoo

              idea that they have the power not just to send other people to hell, but also to 'save' other people's souls. Kinda nutty for sure, considering the fact that their religion specifically denies both of those godly abilities to human beings.

              And for rather excellent psychological reasons too. Saving grace may be their attendant belief that shepherds are to be judged more harshly than the sheep if they've led those sheep astray. Bring this attendant into the conversation at just the right moment - usually right after their ego has jumped with two eager feet into the role of god per issues of judgment and/or soul-saving - and you'll see some real fear in their eyes just before they leave your presence (or change the subject).

              Has to do with their confusions with regard to Calvinist doctrines, a rather heated historical debate they still haven't managed to come to terms with. There is a great deal of ego [pride] rolled into their evangelical pretensions to godhood. IOW, the pretense has no room for "freedom" or "liberty."

              •  The only people I ever meet who are this nutty (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                cotterperson, Joieau

                are ones I meet through brief and casual encounters in social settings that don't lend themselves to serious discussion (read: interventions). And I don't exactly go out of my way to cultivate relationships with then beyond that. Like a lot of people on the left I kind of live in a semi-liberal silo. But then I'm not that social.

                "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

                by kovie on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 02:10:37 PM PST

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                •  Alas, some of us are related to them. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  I live as far out in the boonies as it's possible to legally live - my little homestead of 26 acres of southern Appalachian abundance is bordered by more than a million acres of national forest. Nearest neighbors are half a mile away... heck, my driveway's that long!

                  But that doesn't mean I don't have to deal with old friends and relatives on a semi-regular basis.

                  •  Heh. I don't think everyone (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Joieau, MichaelNY

                    gets to truly appreciate what it is like to be in Red terrortory (misspelling intentional).

                    By circumstance, I learned a woman who works the register at a local gas station is a Democrat. It was the night of the election after I escaped from cousin's phone call.

                    We both tip-toed around who would win the election, both very aware of abrasive, often abusive commentary that would follow if it slipped we were Obama supporters. Finally, we understood that BOTH of us were Democrats and all out celebrated right there at the register!

                    She said, "When I voted for Obama today, I just knew I was the only person in Pawnee County to do so."

                    We are the rarity here. And, without even realizing, have become completely intimidated to share our views despite opposing views being crammed down our throats, and assumed to be ours as well.

                    No more. I wont' be intimidated. Next time I find myself in a situation where someone is forcefully telling me how stupid Democrats are, I'm going to engage with courage. I don't care how many gunracks are hanging in their pick-up truck!

    •  I understand your frustration... (7+ / 0-)

      believe me, I live right smack-dab in the center of Oklahoma. But, if we give up on educating, then we are as guilty of feeding the monster.

      •  And part of educating is, well, educating (4+ / 0-)

        What I stated above is irrefutible fact. Now, one could make the argument that although red states generally get more in federal aid than they pay back in federal taxes and fees, their net contribution to referal revenue is still positive, in the overall economic activity that they enable or stimulate outside their states.

        E.g. if the federal government has to invest $50B to upgrade the highways in Kansas but only gets back $40B in revenue during the same period, it's quite plausible that this "net loss" investment still pays for itself in enabling cross-country shipping that ends up netting the federal government an additional $20B in revenue. One would obviously have to run the numbers and rely on all sorts of assumption-based models, but such arguments could be made, plausibly I think.

        My broader point being that while both sides can make obvious gut-level attacks on the other side, there's ultimately little good that comes of it. We have to be rational adults about how we discuss all this ultimately if we're to get past much of what passes for partisan bickering in the US.

        I.e. I agree with you.

        "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

        by kovie on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 09:24:53 AM PST

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