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View Diary: Did they really think only old white men would hear the dogwhistles? (223 comments)

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  •  Chattel slavery a thousand years old by then (3+ / 0-)
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    libnewsie, YucatanMan, G2geek

    There is no meaningful story that has slavery starting in the New World, never mind in North America, spotting the Spanish a century and a half head start.

    Fairy tales, yes. Science? Not even close.

    •  I neither stated nor impalied (4+ / 0-)
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      elginblt, G2geek, mamamedusa, Ahianne

      that slavery started in the NW. Not sure why you think I did.  My comment was in response to one about LBJ comment that lower-class whites can be easily manipulated if provided with a lower class than themselves to despise.

      That comment reminded me of a classic theory of the evolution of slavery and freedom in America -- that the developing planter class recognized consciously that pitting poor whites against blacks was beneficial to controlling both groups.

      History of slavery beyond that is outside the purview of comment or intent -- which was just to toss out a bit of academic testimony that supported the LBJ's understanding. Sorry if it wasn't clear to you.

      Don't ask me nothin' about nothin'. I just might tell ya the truth -- B. Dylan

      by ponderer on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 09:31:51 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It is just a weak theory. (0+ / 0-)

        Planters were motivated to go with slavery by relative immunity to malaria being worth the extra hassle of slaveholding. In time that is what survived. Also, in time freemen were averse to doing field work. South became locked into slavery over time, hemmed in by its choices and how they played out. Consequences that we see playing out to this day.

        •  Clearly we disagree. (0+ / 0-)

          I don't consider the theory weak.  Deliberate efforts by those in power to pit groups against each other that should naturally be allies is a pretty well established means of social control.  And it seems a natural consequence of the planter class carving out the status of blacks and whites would be to consider the terms of their own status in relationship to their evolving culture and where they came from.

          I really meant to make a rather innocuous comment to the LBJ post, not start a historiography debate. I do think your theories about the role of disease in the evolution of a race-based slave system is interesting, though.

          Don't ask me nothin' about nothin'. I just might tell ya the truth -- B. Dylan

          by ponderer on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 06:09:44 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  The closest thing I found to this notion... (1+ / 0-)
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        Is the old phrase The Slave Power, the notion that the Republic (all of it) was being corrupted by a slaveholding cabal that, contrary to the espoused doctrine of states' rights, was all about using its immense concentration of landed wealth as a base from which to crowd out all competition from free enterprise, free labor and free political institutions.

        While historians debate if such a scheme (not to secede from but to conquer the Republic) was in play in the 1800s, it's not hard to see the appeal of such a notion as a legacy foundation for rhetoric in more modern civil rights struggles and the ongoing economic justice movement.

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