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View Diary: Will the revenge layoffs backfire? (383 comments)

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  •  It's only two guys. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ccyd, CharlieHipHop, LilithGardener

    Let's not go crazy over two guys. This is really a non-issue.

    •  Tell that (13+ / 0-)

      to the people who get fired and can't pay the rent or feed their kids.

       Tell them that to their faces.

      I dare you.

      Al Qeada is a faith-based initiative.

      by drewfromct on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 06:49:04 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Every month these days, (6+ / 0-)

        2 million people quit their jobs. 2 million people are fired/laid off. And about 4.2 million get new jobs. Every month. This is why this story IMO is completely overblown. You have to view issues in context, and when you do that here you realize that this is very much a silly distraction.

        •  Bullshit (23+ / 0-)

          This is about Greedy, irrational Wingnuts forcing their politics down the throats of their customers and employees, and hurting people out of sheer petulance. It needs to be called out and shown for what it is, and it can't be ignored, lest these assholes get away with it.

          They need to be made an example of.

          Wait until it happens to you.

          Al Qeada is a faith-based initiative.

          by drewfromct on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 06:57:04 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Go ahead. I myself focus on (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ccyd

            larger issues that affect millions of people, not anecdotal shit that affects a few hundred. We all have to pick our fights, go for it.

            •  Double bullshit (8+ / 0-)

              I challenged you to go tell a person who got fired because their boss is a petulant prick that it doesn't matter.

              Are you going to do it? Yes or No?

              You've got some fucking nerve to come in here and say that peoples' lives don't matter. Nerve, but not much brains, and even less compassion.

              Al Qeada is a faith-based initiative.

              by drewfromct on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 07:04:48 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Whatever man, why are you (0+ / 0-)

                so upset about this when 2 million people lose their jobs every month? I feel for all of them, but you seem to think that these two examples are so infuriating that we need to dwell on it. This is a drop in the monthly layoff bucket, and is not a real national trend or issue. It's a distraction caused by some silly conservative CEOs. We probably play into their hands by dwelling on it. Some people at Papa Johns maybe will have their hours reduced. That is not a good thing. But it is also hardly worth mentioning. That is my opinion.

                •  It's worth dwelling on (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Sassy

                  because it's a perfect example of how the "job creator" crap they put out is pure B.S., and any and every time they put out B.S. we need to call them out on it and put them down hard and fast.

                  Also, it's bad enough when people get put out of work due to economic factors, but firing people just for spite is especially evil, and it's wrong to even contemplate letting them get away with it.

                  Again, I dare you to look a kid a hungry kid in the eye and tell him it's no big deal that his mom or dad got fired because their CEO is a dick.

                  And no, I'm not letting this go until you figure out just how wrong and callous you're coming off to keep saying thst this is no big deal. I assure that it's a very big deal indeed to the unfortunate workers who are getting fucked over this way.

                  Al Qeada is a faith-based initiative.

                  by drewfromct on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 07:32:18 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I'm the kind of person who (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    SpamNunn

                    views things in context, and you seem to be someone who views things more based on emotion. Both attitudes are welcome here. We discuss, we share our viewpoints. We don't insist that others conform to our viewpoints. I think this is sillyville and will be forgotten in a few days or weeks. You think this is a travesty of some import. So we disagree a bit. Chill out already, it's okay for someone on the internet to disagree with you.

                    •  The attitude that this is no big deal (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      drewfromct, Orlaine

                      is NOT welcome here, IMO.

                      It is time to #Occupy Media.

                      by lunachickie on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 07:51:15 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  What kind of context would you view it in (0+ / 0-)

                      if it happened to you?

                      That is the only legitimate context in which to view this or any issue.

                      Al Qeada is a faith-based initiative.

                      by drewfromct on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 08:12:21 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  It would be freakish, right? (0+ / 0-)

                        Because out of 2,000,000 individuals who lose their jobs every month, I'd be one of the few dozen who lost my job out of spite. It's like anything else that is incredibly rare, it would be an issue to me but a teeny tiny issue from the nation's standpoint. You don't seem to understand the whole concept of context and perspective. I'm not going to go nuts over something that affects 0.0001% of workers. There are so many bigger fish to fry for me. But if YOU want to focus on this, again, I have no problem with that - it is a free country!

                        •  It would put you in the rare air of a (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          doc2

                          Cosmic Shit Magnet. Where all the bad shit in the universe seems to land on one set of shoulders. I was called one of those the other day and I gotta wonder sometimes.

                          But other than the possibility of bad Karma mixed with Bad luck, out of the universe of reasons for losing a job, a revenge firing is right up there with losing a job because it only snowed in one car out of a million; yours. Which caused you to be late for work. Which now puts  the CSM  under the duress of explaining how a snowstorm picks one  out of millions of people and not anyone else .

                          Even if it is just bad luck, do they want any bad luck working there?

                          There may be sympathy but , the reaction I see is : keep that shit away from me. ". :-)

                  •  Anyone who is depending on a Poppa John's (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    doc2

                    minimum wage pizza joint job to feed a hungry kid has bigger troubles than getting their hours cut.  

                    An education and a better job is what we should be fighting for, not pizza boycotts.  

                    Intolerance betrays want of faith in one's cause. - Gandhi

                    by SpamNunn on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 09:18:42 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •   So what are you going to do about it? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    doc2

                    Obviously you are so upset that logical discussion is beyond your horizons right now. So what do you think you can do about it. Once you ask yourself and give yourself an honest answer you just might find that this country is one of the places where people are entitled to say stupid shit.

                    Why not wait until there is an interview with an employee on the net who lost there job over a owners political preferences before talking yourself into a coronary?

            •  The numbers are small--NOW (12+ / 0-)

              But a number of other business owners have threatened to follow suit and RWNJs all over are yelling for them to do it.  

              By calling out these first few assholes and making it clear that revenge layoffs WILL backfire and carry costs for the GOP, we might prevent additional pricks who are considering following suit from doing so.  

          •  Agreed I think many people are not aware of (8+ / 0-)

            how many companies are owned by wingnuts.
            There are quite a few and people don't realize how their agenda can affect America's future.

            For example:
            I noticed changes in weather.com  which make it harder to access historical averages.
            I've always instinctively thought there was a right wing tinge underlying the weather channel, which I believe owns weather.com
            Then they also bought up wunderground, which gives them control over the main sources of weather information for most Americans.

            Sure enough during the Weather Channel's coverage of Sandy they announced that their owners Bain Capitol would match donations from viewers (with a limit).

            I thought, "I knew it, I could something lurking in the background".

            Companies like Bain Capitol, Comcast, Clearchannel, Papa John's and many many more have a political agenda....
            and that agenda is all about control, it's beyond just making a profit.

            They try to fly under the radar for the most part,
            but if one makes the effort to look, you will find they have an enormous amount of power which they try to use to influence Americans to go against what's in the best interest of the nation.

             

            •  NOAA.gov (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              middleagedhousewife

              I think that weather.com gets its information from noaa.gov.

              •  It's not the information (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                DuzT

                It's the way it's presented.

                I used to always access the daily averages with one click.
                It was very easy to do.
                The format has changed this year and it is not now as easy to compare current weather of multiple locations to historical data with a simple click as it has been.

                That's just one example.

                Here's another:
                What's with the naming of winter storms.
                They've already named two.
                I don't know what the criteria is,
                but tropical storms and hurricanes have specific criteria.
                A hurricane is cyclonic or it's not a hurricane.
                A winter storm?.......

                I've just always have been obsessed with weather data since I was a little kid, way before global warming was a common phrase.
                My own little Aspy tendency.
                Data has no political or cultural agenda.
                But how it is presented can very much have an agenda.

        •  And again, (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          PeteZerria, snoopydawg, zorp

          why don't you just go to someone who loses their income due to the sheer immaturity of their CEO and tell them to their face that not being able to pay the rent and put food on the table is nothing but a "silly distraction".

          Again, I dare you.

          Otherwise, you can STFU. It's not the least bit silly to someone who works hard for a living and makes money for the company just to get the boot simply to satisfy some asshole's disagreement with the will of the voters.

          Al Qeada is a faith-based initiative.

          by drewfromct on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 07:01:01 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  you are blowing this up. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            doc2, Dburn, Sparhawk

            you general feel bad when someone dies or is killed. You see it on the news every day. That doesn't mean i sit there and weep at the TV like it really matters to me unless it was actually someone i know and personally cared about. Bad things happen to people. Sometimes it's unavoidable, sometimes it's carelessness, sometimes it's mean spirited; that's life, but you don't sit there and be bitter about it all day.

            •  This needs to be blown up. (6+ / 0-)

              And this is the place to do it.

              This is a political blog. This is a political issue.

              This is a couple of Wingnut CEOs fucking up and handing us an issue to use against them on a silver platter. To let it pass by is pure stupidity. These are the people who make such a big deal of going around saying that they shouldn't be taxed because they are such generous "job creators" when in reality they simply like to fire people and destroy their livelihoods for the sheer spite of it.

              You're goddamn right I'm blowing this up. You should be too.

              Al Qeada is a faith-based initiative.

              by drewfromct on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 07:37:03 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Isn't it possible drew that (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Dburn, DuzT, Sparhawk

                something that is a big issue for you is not as big an issue for other people? Perhaps there are issues I feel deeply about that you don't. That would not bother me in the least. You need to be more tolerant IMO of other peoples' perspectives and opinions. What do you care if anime or I don't share your opinion of the importance of this?

          •  See if YOU can find that person first (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            doc2

            Before going bonkers yourself.

        •  I respectfully disagree (0+ / 0-)

          since it is entirely consistent with the narrative (and we know people LOVE narratives) that far too many of the wealthy behave like greedy pricks.

          "Mitt Romney has more positions than the Kama Sutra." -- me "Social justice is love, made public." -- Cornel West

          by billlaurelMD on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 09:42:01 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  You are getting excited over nothing (0+ / 0-)

        Firings/lay-offs happen when the business is not there to support the overhead. The excuses people make for doing the firings vary, but the mere notion that people will intentionally shoot themselves in the foot by getting ridding of people they need , if business warrants it, simply because there are unknowns  out there is nonsense.

        We have a couple of people yelling BS who will probably find out the hard-way there is a price for being publicly stupid. Any business who wants to stay in business, makes certain not to potentially offend customers . It's the height of moronic behavior when they say that shit with no intention of doing it because their employees may take it seriously. Employees that are skilled/ talented and can get work elsewhere will leave. The rest will stay and some of them will start taking shit that isn't nailed down as they start their own financial planning.

        Small and large business may start waking up to the fact that the viability of their business depends on the confidence of their employees , the vendors that extend them trade credit, and their customers. It sounds like these guys are hoping for some Chick' fil' A' temporary boost in sales. Either that or they are just morons.  

    •  I disagree (14+ / 0-)

      There were several others who used similar threats during the campaign and even the candidate encouraged the behavior. More cases may surface and others may be unreported. They are abusing their power over others, and though it may be empty bluster in some cases, that is not how the people under their whip experience it.

      Paranoia strikes deep. Into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid. You step out of line, the man come and take you away. - S. Stills

      by ask on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 06:57:46 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's not some sort of macro trend. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CharlieHipHop, voodoochild62

        It's a few blowhards, and most are likely bluffing. This is an issue for the week after an election when the losers are reeling. It doesn't have legs, and it won't be something that affects many people at all. I think we all know that.

        •  It is being covered in the media... (16+ / 0-)

          ...which makes it a political issue that could have greater significance.   However big or small the direct impact (and I do think that a little more sympathy with the victims would be warranted), the INDIRECT impact of such political intimidation could be much stronger.

          The diarist was suggesting ways in which to reframe the issue to make it a political liability for the Republicans.   I see nothing wrong with that.  

          •  I think it automatically is (0+ / 0-)

            a political liability for the GOP (to the extent that anything 2 full years before an election can be a liability). And there is nothing wrong per se with the diary or conversation. My comment was part of that conversation. My comment is let's not get too worked up about two CEO's threatening to fire people or cut hours because Obama was elected; they're just idiots. Who really wants to work for these guys anyhow?

          •  it's a political liablity that i feel is (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            doc2, chimene

            A) too far away from the next reelection
            B) is the equiv of saying they are going to move to canada

            •  Exactly. (0+ / 0-)

              It is inane utterances from some pissed off fundies. People here should realize that there is not going to be a nationwide wave of irrational firings out of spite. You can just follow the comments and see people getting each other more and more worked up over this. And if someone says hey this is just silliness there seems to be a real pushback to that, to even the mere suggestion that this is not something that should be a focus of ours.

            •  Oh, they wouldn't like Canada... probably (0+ / 0-)

              don't know what the Conservatives up North have been doing, but 30 years ago, if your hours got cut, and you quit, you could still get your unemployment. they considered getting yr hours cut the equivalent of being "partially fired NOT for cause". if you had been originally hired at less-than-full-time, you were still paying into unemployement, and if you quit because of cut hours, could collect.

              sounds like modern Germany! one of the reasons they're doing so well is that if a company decides it has to cut staff, what they do (or were doing as recently as the last decade) is shuffle hours so ALL employees get fewer hours but nobody gets fired, and then the gov't makes up the difference in people's salaries, so no one loses a job, AND no one starves!

              also? Unions in Canada are REALLY strong, they strike all the time over all kinds of things. including the postal service...

              "real" work : a job where you wash your hands BEFORE you use the bathroom...

              by chimene on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 02:23:26 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  These are the same CEOs (3+ / 0-)

        who told their employees they'd lose health care if Obama won and implemented ACA. It's all hot air if you ask me. No CEO keeps extra people employed that are not needed, and no CEO fires people such that the company ends up unable to conduct business. CEOs fire people for many reasons, but not for political spite. That said, there could be a handful of total lunatics out there that are willing to hurt their own companies in order to make some sort of point. It's so rare though that I'm not going to worry about it (and anybody who works for such a wacko really should change companies anyhow when you think about it).

    •  Here's what I heard in September... (9+ / 0-)

      "It's nothing personal," "it's a business decision," "the company's doing fine." Well, it WAS and IS intensely personal. My husband got "let go" (you're free! you're free!) and our family's income has been cut in half. I just loved hearing that the company is "doing fine." Then why the heck did they have to screw up our lives?

      “Never, never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well-being of a person or animal is at stake. Society's punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way.” ― Martin Luther King Jr.

      by minglewood on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 07:29:42 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think you are saying your (0+ / 0-)

        husband got fired, and that is very sad for you. We're discussing here firing for spite, a newly invented reason for firing people that I do not think is a serious issue for the American worker.

        •  Wow. Not only are you clueless (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sethtriggs, NoMoreLies

          your now being a dick.

          The revenge layoff is finding a meme to attack the practice of bullshit layoffs that has being going on for a long time under the cover of whatever excuse they can use.

          My job supposedly went to China in 2008. I have been contacted numerous times by temp agencies to do my same old job at the same place since then. Did they really lay me off because of lack of work?

          No. That was bullshit to line a CEO's pocket with bonus.

          This was NOT firing. It was a wave of layoffs that did not make much sense since it removed people creating the company's next product. You are a dick to think it is a firing for anyone.

          Companies have been enjoying a disproportionate power over employees for years. It hurts people, hurts families, hurts our economy and hurts our country. That has to change.

          I am much too liberal to be a Democrat.

          by WiseFerret on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 08:53:02 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don't think it is productive to be calling (0+ / 0-)

            people names because they don't agree with you on any issue.  Everyone here is entitled to their opinions, including you, however, calling someone a "dick" because they don't agree with you is unnecessary and nasty.  I thought we here were supposed to be more "enlightened" then your average site.  You are bordering on bullying behavior.

            "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." - John F. Kennedy

            by helpImdrowning on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 03:48:14 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Perhaps you missed the above comment (0+ / 0-)

              telling someone their husband probably deserved to be fired?

              If that's not dickishness, than it is a step beyond.

              The rest was to give it perspective to Doc2 considering his multiple comments repeating the same points without acknowledging the valid points put out by others to explain why this issue matters. It was exceptionally annoying to scroll through multiple efforts to not-get-the-point postings rather than meaningful, on-topic comments.

              There's a difference between pointing out someone's dickish behavior (which is Marko's definition for it!) which is offensive and bullying.

              I am much too liberal to be a Democrat.

              by WiseFerret on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 07:45:51 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  No where in doc2's comment does it say that (0+ / 0-)

                minglewood's husband probably deserved to be fired.  I politely ask you to reread it and point out where this was stated.  The comment says it is sad for her that her husband got fired but doc2 doesn't think it is a source of serious concern for the American worker on a national level.  I also went back through the whole comment thread.  What I took from it was that doc2 doesn't think this issue is one that will become a large scale problem for most workers in the United States, and that he/she wants to focus on larger issues, but anyone who feels differently is free to focus on this issue to their heart's content.  It seems to me that a few other people were angry and repeating the same points over and over in a very emotional manner and not allowing for a difference of opinion over what constitutes a big deal.  It's like my thinking that human trafficking in young women and children for the sex trade is the biggest issue, while you might think that revenge firings are the biggest issue.  Neither of us are right or wrong, we just have different issues that are most important to us.  We should all be allowed to have differing opinions about what we deem to be most important to us without being called "dickish" or being bullied into withdrawing from the discussion by the angry and emotional responses of those who disagree with us.

                "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." - John F. Kennedy

                by helpImdrowning on Mon Nov 12, 2012 at 01:07:42 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

    •  Only 2 guys (0+ / 0-)

      ...for now. Let's attack this at the start.

      It's not about the hundred people whose minds you can't change. It's about the two people you empower. ~ Beth Ditto

      by dejavu on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 08:04:02 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

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