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View Diary: The untold truth behind the GOP election meltdown (322 comments)

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  •  And what would (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aunt Pat, Vent

    you have gained beside the satisfaction of knowing you are right?

    The goal is to convince him that you are right.

    Facts matter. Joe Biden

    by kpardue on Mon Nov 12, 2012 at 05:46:59 AM PST

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    •  If these nutbags could be convinced of anything (0+ / 0-)

      we'd probably not be having this discussion.

      If Rush and FOX can be damaged at this time, these people may be reachable.

      But don't hold your breath on it. Hate radio propaganda is well-done and makes these idiots impervious to real info.

      You can try because that appears to be a sport among some here: "I domesticated a wingnut"

      But they are rather hermetically sealed.

      I don't care if they think I;m right because I see them as virtually impervious to factual information.

      because they are.

      The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

      by xxdr zombiexx on Mon Nov 12, 2012 at 06:13:14 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Of course you (4+ / 0-)

        can change people's minds. It happens all the time. Of course, as long as we think of them as "they," we can't.

        They are not all alike. Some of these people are unreachable.

        Some are suffering from serious mental derangement. You can see that in some of the interviews.

        But most are just ignorant. Ignorant is not the same as stupid. Ignorant can be informed.  Ignorant can be educated.

        But it's certain you will never change one mind as long as you think it can't be done.

        Facts matter. Joe Biden

        by kpardue on Mon Nov 12, 2012 at 06:31:32 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  They are not. I was one of them. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        I agree it's a tough nut to crack. But it's not impossible. I grew up as isolated and indoctrinated as it is possible to be without actually being in a cult (tho it could be argued evangelicalism is a cult) and it is due in a large part to a) the massive liberal outrage over the stolen election in 2004 and the continuing horror in the liberal narrative at GWB, and b) online conversations with people just like you, especially liberal friends that I made in corners of the internet which are not devoted to politics. Every time you 'tilt at the windmill' in your eyes, you are widening the cracks. And it will crack. It may not be today, it may not be tomorrow, but it does happen and it is getting much easier and faster to do as society itself and even pop culture grows more liberal. Do not think the effort is in vain - you really can't have any idea what it is like, being in there and trying to break out of it. I am grateful for every single person who ever took the time to explain or exclaim at me, widening the cracks in my worldview, even if they did so in disbelief or disdain. It all adds up. It really, really does.

    •  Convincing young-earth creationists is futile (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Moonlit Knight

      I don't know how many you have come across in your life, but these are the people who are convinced that dinosaur bones were placed in the dirt to test our faith.  They are a sanctionious lot that I find insufferable.  They would tell you that that dollar bill in your wallet is just a penny even though you KNOW that is as far from the truth as could be.  Yet you could show them a penny and show them a dollar and still they would deny the obvious.

      I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use -- Galileo Galilei

      by ccyd on Mon Nov 12, 2012 at 01:18:42 PM PST

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      •  Yes and no. (0+ / 0-)

        The older generation, maybe. I have pretty much given up on my family. But I have gotten to the place, myself, where I have decided that my faith can coexist with science, and need not twist it into malarkey in the process. I despair of anyone (my dad) who actually has a subscription to ICR's magazine, however.

        •  I reached a point where I could not reconcile (0+ / 0-)

          My undergraduate major was Comparative Religion.  I studied under Ian Barbour, who won the Templeton Prize for his work in Science and Religion.  He also delivered the prestigous Gifford Lectures on that topic.  He is probably the world's foremost authority on seeking to find harmony between the two disciplines.

          Despite his influence on my thought, I reached a point several years ago where I could not reconcile science with my religious beliefs.  This centered mostly around the concept of suffering, particulary of the innocent.  The self-congratulatory Christian crowd also had a hand in it.  For me, science won the day.  I am at peace with my decision to follow science; I have no regrets.

          I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use -- Galileo Galilei

          by ccyd on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 04:51:40 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I hear you. (0+ / 0-)

            I might get to that place eventually too. I don't think it's impossible to keep reconciling the two sides as you continue to learn and question about both, but I do understand getting to the point where it is no longer worth it.

            I left religion behind at one point, mainly because nearly all of it is toxic to LGBT people like me, but eventually decided that I am a person of faith and a lover of science both, and I can't deny either one, or my sexuality for that matter, and still be true to myself. It's a choice everyone has to make for themselves, most definitely.

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