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View Diary: Head of Focus on the Family admits culture-war defeat (108 comments)

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  •  About 20% of evangelicals voted for Obama (23+ / 0-)

    I do not like when we, on the Left "bash" evangelicals anymore then I like when evangelicals "bash" us on the Left. Clearly, some of them are willing to support at least this Democratic President. I think this is because, at core, many are not dominionists; many are "good Christians" who do believe in the Bible.

    My grandfather was an evangelical pastor and not a hateful man in the least, nor was he racist, nor did he tell anyone -- including my Jewish father -- how to live his life. Perhaps this sounds bizarre, but I always saw him as a good man based on his tolerance, care, and love of those around him, including his community.

    If more evangelicals who are not dominionist "Jesus Camp" types could see less hostility from the Left, it might be a good thing, because at core, well, we all know Jesus was a Socialist besides! :)

    •  If we are to embrace (18+ / 0-)

      the glorious regional and cultural differences of this country, that also means recognizing that evangelical churches have deep roots in some communities and that they are part of the fabric.  I'm fine with that, more than fine actually, as long as they don't try to dominate those who don't believe... and as long as they don't mess with science education for everyone else.  

      “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

      by ivorybill on Mon Nov 12, 2012 at 12:26:03 PM PST

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      •  I strongly agree with this (9+ / 0-)

        Thanks for saying it. America is a lot of things. I only am concerned by those who impose their vision of reality on others (what people believe, or who they sleep with, or what they do behind closed doors in general is of zero concern to me).

        •  It might be healthy (6+ / 0-)

          if white evangelical christians were able to see themselves even briefly through the eyes of an outsider - to realize that white christian fundamentalism in, say, rural Kansas is every bit as much a regional sub-culture as rural black culture in the cotton belt of south-central Georgia, or the border culture of the Rio Grande in Texas.  That ability to look from the outside might bring with it a little humility, as well as a sense of calm when they realize the fear of "demographic winter" or whatever is not the same as extinction or even irrelevance.  This is not a winner-take all country - again with the exception of our relations with Native Americans.

          For the evangelicals, the fact that white protestant dominance is waning is a horrible catastrophic cloud on the horizon. Maybe they need to realize that the plus side of plural America is that hardly anyone ever goes extinct.  They are hardly endangered and they can carve a place out for themselves just like every other subculture and subgroup in America.  Nobody's going to shut down their churches or prevent them from voting.  Nobody's going to force them to believe in evolution or get an abortion.  Things are not as bad as they think.  

          “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

          by ivorybill on Mon Nov 12, 2012 at 01:16:03 PM PST

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    •  I'm sorry, but how would it possible to not (8+ / 0-)

      be hostile to those that are so consistently demonizing us?  If they just had a different point of view voted differently, that would be fine.  But that's never enough for them.  They're trying to take over our laws and make their religion the law of the land.  They believe that anyone who doesn't believe the same of them is not just wrong, but evil.

      I know.  I grew up in that atmosphere.  I see it on a daily basis among my family membelrs, whom I would not call hateful people - until it comes to politics.  Then they become hateful.  

      I truly wish I could feel less hostility towards them, but it require being  on the receiving end of less hostility.  To suggest we not resent what they're trying to do to us is a bit like suggesting President Obama really needs to work with the Republican House.

      "If you trust you are not critical; if you are critical you do not trust" by our own Dauphin

      by gustynpip on Mon Nov 12, 2012 at 12:51:28 PM PST

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      •  Not all evangelicals are demonizing us (5+ / 0-)

        There are Churches who do, but as individuals? There are a lot of Christians who support tolerance. You can see that in the 20% of evangelicals (not just Christians) who voted for us.

        On this site, there are quite a few Christians. They could explain some of this better than I can since I am not, nor have I ever been, Christian. I think you ought to discuss this then with some of the Christians on this site.

        The hostility is there, but it's from certain factions, and many of those dominate the media. Definitely not all evangelicals are hostile bullies though; my grandfather definitely was no such thing! Obviously, with 95% support for Democrats from AA's, a huge number of these are Church-goers. Ditto Latinos, like I said.

        My husband used to be Catholic when he was young. I know his family still is. But they are not hateful and are fully Obama supporters as well. So those Christian hate groups who take up the airways, well, those are bad Christians and probably dominionist sorts.

        •  20% is not a lot. And extremely few "demonize" (1+ / 0-)
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          Christians, per se.  We "demonize" those who are intolerant, sexist, racist, homophobic assholes and who use their religion as a justification for being bigots.

          "If you trust you are not critical; if you are critical you do not trust" by our own Dauphin

          by gustynpip on Mon Nov 12, 2012 at 02:19:55 PM PST

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    •  Hostility from the Left is not the problem. It is (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      the rigid know-it-all stance of the fundies.

      Let the "good Christians" speak up, instead of letting loony Pat Buchanan and mad dog Mike Huckabee speak for them.

      "I believe more women should carry guns. I believe armed women will make the world a better place. Women need to come to think of themselves not as victims but as dangerous." Anna Pigeon

      by glorificus on Mon Nov 12, 2012 at 01:35:53 PM PST

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