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View Diary: 2013 Car of the Year is an Electric Car! (206 comments)

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  •  Think ahead a little. (7+ / 0-)

    It's true that the subsidies aren't helping the average consumer right now, but if we had started subsidizing luxury EVs twenty years ago, we'd all be in electric cars by now.

    •  If we had started subsidizing luxury EVs twenty (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cassandra77

      years ago, a number or rich people would have bought toys at my expense and the vast majority of us would still be driving ICE cars.  

      LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

      by dinotrac on Mon Nov 12, 2012 at 11:20:38 PM PST

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      •  I should add -- why do people who want to tax (0+ / 0-)

        the rich also want to give them presents like this?

        Just plain silly.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Mon Nov 12, 2012 at 11:21:26 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  because this is how we improve the tech. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          netop, Lawrence, madhaus

          Tesla was able to start with a small factory and succeed, by hand-building supercars.  

          Then they scaled up to limited mass production of luxury sedans.  

          Next step is to scale up further and produce middle range family cars.  

          By that time competition will have kicked in, and Ford, Chevy, et. al. will be producing solid but inexpensive ones for everyone.  

          The only other way to do this, would have required enormous capital to start out, on a scale that could not have been attempted without losing control of the whole thing at an early stage, and watching all of its new technology get sold off and sunk.  

          We got the future back.

          by G2geek on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 01:49:29 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  You are ignoring the history of tech in order to (0+ / 0-)

            shower gifts on rich people.

            The history of tech is that early adapters are willing to pay the price for cool new technology.  It was true with cars, with televisions, with phones, with all manner of things.

            Making a $100,000 Tesla cost $90,000 isn't going to make a difference to very many people at all.

            Now -- if you make a $100,000 Tesla cost $50,000, you would get more buyers (though still a relatively small number because, for most of us, $50,000 is still a ton of money), but then you have to ask why in the hell you're paying people $50,000 to buy a car.

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 06:06:33 AM PST

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            •  You are losing sight of the other reason for EV (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Lawrence

              subsidies: cleaner air.  The subsidy isn't just for Teslas.  It's for all EVs, and reduces the Leaf from $38K before tax to $31.5.  Then many states have additional incentives.  California gives a $2500 rebate and use of HOV lane stickers.  Washington has no sales tax on EVs.  PZEVs like the Volt qualify for smaller tax credits and incentives, too.

              Did you also complain about the absolutely obscene $125K business deduction for Hummers?  It was reduced but is still in effect, you now get I think $28k in depreciation first year.  That's more than 3 times as much money for rich people to drive a fracking gas-guzzler.

              Priorities, man!  Why whine about toys for rich people when it advances the tech, cleans the air, and moves us away from burning dinosaur guts?

              In capitalist America, bank robs you!

              by madhaus on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 11:13:40 AM PST

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              •  Re hummers: Yup and Nope. (0+ / 0-)

                I don't understand SUVs for 90% of the people who buy them, but there is no "Hummer" business deduction.  Businesses have expenses and they are allowed to depreciate assets. By the same token, a business buying a Tesla can get that very same deduction.

                Priorities is right.

                The whine is not about toys for rich people.  Rich people can buy all the toys they want.  But your argument is exactly the same as saying rich people shouldn't be taxed because they are job creators, and no more accurate.

                If the government is going to spend money, it should go where it matters and where it will do some real good.  

                LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                by dinotrac on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 01:00:29 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. (0+ / 0-)

                  There is definitely a deduction for heavy trucks (over 6000 or 6500 lbs) such as the Hummer.  You cannot get that deduction for an EV.  Google Hummer deduction if you don't believe me.  And it was $125,000. Absolutely obscene.  I believe it is a Section 159 but that's off the top of my head and I can't check it myself, too many tabs open already on my tablet.  But I've posted on this many times on EV forums so I am positive about the rule, just not the section number or the exact amount of the deduction now (somewhere between $25 to $31k now).

                  Try writing off the full cost of a Model S for your business in one year and watch your accountant laugh as you.

                  I also note you ignored everything about the advantages in promoting green tech: cleaner air and eventually making it affordable for everyone.  

                  In capitalist America, bank robs you!

                  by madhaus on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 10:56:27 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

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