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View Diary: “The History We Didn’t Know” About Last Year’s Grand Bargain Negotiations (505 comments)

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  •  let's just say this is true (11+ / 0-)

    and there's no context or facts missing, this in no way justifies the absurd overreaction here.

    I mean good gods you have multiple people basically claiming Obama as some cliched mustached never do well who is enacting a scheme so complicated that you would think this is a Bond film

    From the article itself it sounds like Obama and his negigators  knew this wouldn't fly but wanted to see how far would be too far

    Is this what the next four years will be like? Jumping and shadows and getting angry about a 'betrayal' that hasn't even happened and frankly would not even be a betrayal? It seems a waste of energy and a poor way to spend time where we could instead be writing well researched, elegant pieces where in a case could be made why this or that is wrong.

    Brooklyn Bad Boy had a diary about dkos being taken seriously but if this is a portent of the next four years why should we be taken seriously? I don't know a lot about economics and generally I'm left with reading sources and trying to decide if the logic is sound and going from there. And this diary respresents to me a wasted oppurtunity because on the whole I am turned off by the approach of the diary and by the resulting comments.

    Just my 2 cents and take it how you well, I have no doubt that what I just said will anger some here but if you want to have a fight don't bother responding because I have better ways to spend my time being insulted and cursed at. To the rest as always I welcome discussion because I don't believe anything is sacred or out of bounds.

    •  yeah, it's more of the same (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      howarddream, duhban

      from the same crowd.

      tactics..  they no has them.

      -You want to change the system, run for office.

      by Deep Texan on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 06:56:59 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Again, you miss the point. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sunspots

      Obama has been headed in this direction for a while now.

      The Grand Bargain would be a complete disaster for the Democratic Party, if you're solely partisans for the cause.

      It would, most importantly, be a complete disaster for millions of Americans. The Grand Bargain hurts a lot of people that the idiots in the DC Beltway Bubble Universe have never met or care about. We're numbers on spreadsheets to them.

      Cutting social safety net programs is something to get freaked out about. No president with a D behind their name should ever mess with something to politically toxic, legacy policy or not. It hurts people.--so excuse us if we get freaked out.

      The Grand Bargain must be stopped at all costs to protect the 99%.

      by cybrestrike on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:37:48 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  look all I am saying (0+ / 0-)

        is that be freaked out but instead of acting freaked out let's be strident, assertive but also logical and rational. Let's care about what happens (and don't think for one second I don't) but let's not be ruled by our emotions; channel them focus them towards greatest effectiveness

    •  Absolutely right on (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      howarddream, duhban

      The President wants us to hold his feet to the fire but this public ranting and stomping of the feet about purely speculative crap doesn't do that.  There are legitimate channels to funnel your suggestions, worries, and complaints about policy directly to the White House and there's vast evidence that it all gets taken very seriously.  

      I read exactly what you did that offers were most likely thrown out that contained nearly everything the Republicans wanted because Obama and staff knew they were in blockade mode and would turn down everything.  Those actions are very valuable in the final negotiations.  "We put this, this, and this on the table and you turned them down.  Since you showed no good faith, we've now reassessed and have gone back to our original desires and will take it to the American public and expose your duplicity."

      Have none of you ever haggled before?  Imagine those dealings being on a scale so much greater and dealing with immense power and consequences and tremendous political fallout if you fail.  

      "A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism." -- Carl Sagan

      by artmartin on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:19:09 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think haggling is becoming (0+ / 0-)

        a lost art and I think the same is true of actual negotiation too. There was a wonderful community diary up a couple weeks ago about the art of negotiation I rather wish I had saved it as I think it's the perfect counter point here.

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