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View Diary: It has come to this: We will soon become the “new ni**ers” (171 comments)

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  •  I hate insulting anyone's religion but... (15+ / 0-)

    he calls himself a "Jewish Christian." I'm sorry; it's an oxymoron. You can be one or you can be the other. There really isn't any wiggle room. If you accept the divinity of Christ you are no longer a Jew. Most of my friends who've converted are fine with that; they embrace their roots but are clear about their faith and I can respect their decision, though it's not one I'd be comfortable making myself.

    Klayman on the other hand is just nuts. And most of the people like him's go with "untrustworthy."

    •  I've been hearing it (9+ / 0-)

      from several non-related right wingers I come in contact with, along with some stunning antisemitism that came out of nowhere since the election.

      It's a "thing" now. I think it's part of their victim mentality and calling us Nazi's. See we're going to start the camps up any day now.

    •  My husband works with one (6+ / 0-)

      and the guy is totally batshit crazy.

      "Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

      by Damnit Janet on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 10:28:45 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Being Jewish myself (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sfbob, dufffbeer, The Marti, blueoasis

      The Jews for Jesus people just plain tick me off!

      But I guess every religion has its share fringe practicioners that truly don't represent what they claim to be.

      I totally agree with your point!

      Never underestimate stupid. Stupid is how reTHUGlicans win!

      by Mannie on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 10:35:14 AM PST

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    •  I disagree. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      emidesu, The Marti

      You can be of Jewish decent, and identify yourself as being a jew, but still have a different religious belief.  I consider it the same as someone that is an Irish american (of Irish decent) saying they are jewish, or mormon, or whatever.  Your ethnic background can be separate from your religious belief.  Jews are a special case where the religion and the ethnic description share the same name.  

      •  In the US, however, (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dufffbeer, The Marti

        religion is more of a cafeteria thing; it's an option and a choice. I think most Americans consider Judaism to be a choice, not an ethnicity, although it is both.

        "A cynical, mercenary, demagogic press will produce in time a people as base as itself." - Joseph Pulitzer

        by CFAmick on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 10:54:56 AM PST

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    •  Depends who you ask (2+ / 0-)
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      emidesu, The Marti

      By Jewish law, if you convert to another religion, you're still Jewish.

      The issue is further complicated by the fact that "Jewish" is an ethnicity as well as a religion.  If one is using that sense of the word, it isn't an oxymoron at all to declare oneself a Jewish Christian, any more than it would be to declare oneself a Scandanavian Buddhist.

      •  I realize that there are complexities (3+ / 0-)
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        Mannie, The Marti, mayim

        I understand that it can readily be said that being Jewish is an ethnicity. That is not my own personal experience however. I was born and raised Jewish and am most certainly a Jew. If there is any "ethnicity" at work it consists of of having been born of American-born Jews whose ancestors came from Austria, Poland and Russia. There's a good deal of ethnicity in nation of origin.

        While you are technically correct, those like Klayman who call themselves "Jewish Christians" are using the term in a religious sense and are trying to gloss over about 2,000 years of theological conflict.

        To be honest, it makes more sense to me to for someone to call himself or herself a Jewish Buddhist than a Jewish Christian. In fact I know plenty who'd consider themselves the former. Quite a few of the leading Buddhist practitioners in the Bay Area clearly have a Jewish background and I suspect at least some of them are still observant Jews in one sense or another. There isn't the sort of conflict between the two that manifests itself in the tension between Judaism and Christianity.

        •  Fair enough. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          If by "Jewish Christian" one means only "Christian by belief and Jewish by birth," I have no quarrel with that.  But if one means "Christian by belief because Jewish," like the Jews-for-Jesus, then yeah I have to agree with you: that's kind of sketchy.

          And hey, I know a good few Jewish Pagans.  Including one who's a syncretist and has been working for years on combining traditional Jewish and neo-pagan practices.  I don't have a problem with that because he is not claiming that his faith is really the true final form of Judaism, which if I read you correctly, this guy is.

          •  My presumption on folks like Klayman (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            and some others, like the Reverend Lou Sheldon, who used to be very influential in CA right-wing politics, are indeed claiming that to be a good Jew one must accept the divinity of Jesus. That's the beef I have with them.

            When I see Jews for Jesus on the street (doesn't seem to happen that much lately) I make a concerted effort to walk away. The alternative would involve me making statements I might later regret having made. Or raising my blood pressure to unacceptable levels. Or both.

            •  I might also add that (in my experience) (0+ / 0-)

              being an American Jew may itself be a sort of ethnic identity regardless of where one's forebears came from.

            •  I haven't seen one in a while either... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              ... I hope they're all okay.  <.<

              I once engaged a J-for-J missionary on a street corner for something like half an hour while waiting for a friend who was running late.  (I was there, so was he, I was bored...)  It was actually pretty entertaining, especially once I started telling him all about the Myth & Archetype college course I was taking.

    •  Klayman's just sucking up to the Dominionists (0+ / 0-)

      like the Rev, John Hagee and his CUFI crowd.
      Follow the speaking engagements money...

      "Double, double, toile and trouble; Fire burne, and Cauldron bubble... By the pricking of my Thumbes, Something wicked this way comes": Republicans Willkommen im Vierten Reich! Sie haben keine Bedeutung mehr.

      by Bluefin on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 05:41:23 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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