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View Diary: Pregnant woman dies in agony as doctors do nothing by command of the Irish Catholic Church (549 comments)

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  •  Yep,I want them sold. (18+ / 0-)

    The ever rightward/backward drifting Catholic Church needs to get the hell out of this business.
    But for starters, they should advertise widely the fact that there exists a full range of medical services that Catholic hospitals will not provide. Even if it kills you.

    "George RR Martin is not your bitch" ~~ Neil Gaiman

    by tardis10 on Wed Nov 14, 2012 at 08:15:27 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  I absolutely agree that they should (4+ / 0-)

      be up front about which services they will, or will not, provide.  

      But I disagree with you on the "selling them off" point.  I understand that is what you WANT to happen.  I just don't see any possibility of that happening as a practical matter.  You are talking about a huge, huge amount of money to buy 12% of the hospitals in this country.  As a practical matter, I just don't see any entity around right now who's willing to step up and put out that kind of money to buy 12% of the hospitals in the country.  Especially since those hospitals are often non-profit, which means that you'd have to find a for-profit company willing to put out huge sums to buy a business that doesn't make a profit.  

      •  The rubber will be meeting (7+ / 0-)

        the road on this issue sooner rather than later,I'd say. The US will probably have to have women (most likely) die needlessly in Catholic hospitals to wake up to the 21st Century. Then,either secular buyers or the government (or,a partnership of the two) will step in. It would be a far more moral position for the CC to divest themselves now.But they won't.

        (The  non-profit status of Catholic & other hospitals is a whole other can of worms. As I am sure you know)

        "George RR Martin is not your bitch" ~~ Neil Gaiman

        by tardis10 on Wed Nov 14, 2012 at 08:44:48 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  eminent domain (nt) (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        •  You still have to pay for them. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Ice Blue, VClib, Wednesday Bizzare

          Under eminent domain (I'm a lawyer) the government taking the property has to pay fair market value for that property.   So, the community would have to pay full fair market value for that hospital, just as if it were sold to a private owner.  All eminent domain means is that the owner has to sell to you at fair market value even if he didn't want to sell it in the first place.  It doesn't allow a government simply to seize property without "just compensation."  Taking property without "just compensation" is a violation of the Fifth Amendment.

          And most states do not have eminent domain laws that allow them to take private businesses (even paying fair market value) for the purpose of operating that business themselves.  It has to be for a "public purpose," and government operating the business itself would not qualify as a public purpose under most state laws.  

        •  Wed B - the owner is entitled to fair market value (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tardis10, Wednesday Bizzare

          "let's talk about that"

          by VClib on Wed Nov 14, 2012 at 07:47:19 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  True, true, but (0+ / 0-)

            I can fantasize about what's "just" financially or otherwise for these people

            Now, getting a little bit more practical, if the IRS were to give these guys a massive tax hit for their electioneering could the properties then be seized as a lien?

            •  WB - I don't think so (0+ / 0-)

              The IRS would never levy a tax lien on a major, legitimate church. The remedy would be to not allow donations to be tax-deductible so the tax would fall on the church members. As a church they can't be required to pay income tax.

              However, there is no President of either party that would ever allow it's DoJ or the IRS to even start the process to investigate the tax status of the American Roman Catholic Church. The political risk is much too great.

              "let's talk about that"

              by VClib on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 10:29:46 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  They don't want to be up front (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tytalus, Siri, tardis10, Neon Mama, StrayCat

        More than once they have said they need the right not to refer a woman in case of an ectopic pregnancy. And what of women who live in areas that have no other hospital?

      •  They make a profit! (0+ / 0-)

        It just goes back to the Church as a "donation," or is plowed back into some other local Church charity, and is not distributed to an owner or shareholders.

        Non-profit does not mean "does not make money," it just means the amount of money they take in over and above expenses is not treated as taxable "profit" to anyone because it is not maintained or distributed to private persons as investment income or additions to their private wealth.

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