Skip to main content

View Diary: Killing Sacred Liberal Cows, or What Economists Think About the Economy (105 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Great diary (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ricklewsive, SamSinister

    I love it. We should be definitely talking more about policy here - what kind of policies are the best to spur income and economic growth and bring forth a more progressive society (less income inequality etc.)

    I'm not completely sure about the consumption tax. Sure, some sort of a VAT might work (it's implemented in all other advanced economies) but to get rid of income tax alltogether? I would need more information on how the consumption tax would be designed but my first reaction is skepticism - to make it progressive might also make it extremely complicated and difficult to implement.

    Carbon tax. Sure, absolutely. Legalizing marijuana? Absolutely, there are only moral arguments against it and I don't share those views. I also agree that mortgage deduction is creating wrong incentives and it should be seriously reconsidered - at least make it more progressive.

    A very good diary, thanks for writing it. We need more discussion that questions the basic talking points about policy around here. Yeah, it's fun to ridicule conservatives (they often do come across as laughable) and so on but we also need to come up with our own ideas that don't rely just on "conventional liberal wisdom" - sometimes it is not the best way.

    •  please explain how VAT and Carbon tax can be made (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:


      Over 20 years I've listened to advocates of a VAT, no one has convinced me its possible. No one has convinced me it wont contract the economy and make income disparity worse.

      FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

      by Roger Fox on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 01:06:10 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Depends on whether it's used for deficit reduction (0+ / 0-)

        Here's a short summary on the carbon tax:

        Basically the idea is that rebates would mitigate the impact on low-income households and actually make it more progressive. Of course, that means it can't be used to bring down the debt which is a reason why it's unlikely to come up in the current "fiscal cliff" discussions. It would have to be revenue neutral. And, of course, there are the concerns of implementing that unilaterally without China or other emerging economies on board which might have very unpredictable and harmful effects on the US economy.

        I'll get back to you about the consumption tax - I might also write a diary later about different tax policies that might work including VAT.

        •  Ahem, lets stimulate the economy first (0+ / 0-)

          cause the carbon tax is going to initially slow the economy down.

          Incentivize capital flow to Wind, Solar, HVDC supergrid, pumped hydro & Solar thermal storage.

          Once the infrastructure to actually make this stuff in the US has been established, start applying the carbon tax.

          And throw that VAT idea into the garbage with the gold standard.

          FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

          by Roger Fox on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 01:35:49 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sure (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Roger Fox

            Yes, stimulatory measures at this point are needed more. However, the sooner we could implement the carbon tax the better. I don't see it happening any time soon but the longer we wait, the more we're just kicking the can down the road (cap and trade is even more unlikely and has some problems of its own)

            And VAT is not a terrible idea if it's done along with other fundamental changes to the tax code (to make it more progressive). Is this likely to happen? Am I an enthusiastic advocate of VAT? No. But to say VAT is like the gold standard is ridiculous (Europe has something to say to you).

            •  How to make a VAT progressive (0+ / 0-)

              Well, 47% dont pay a net income tax, right, so to approach that same figure, 47% need to not pay a VAT, in fact some people make out quite well with the Earned Income tax credit.

              SO folks who get money back, when they buy something the VAT has to give them money......

              And thats just the basics of dealing with making a VAT somewhat similar for households making 50k or less.

              Then the 200k Ferrari needs a good 200k-400k VAT

              Cause some working class dude gets a rebate, cause he has a job that when we had income tax he got 1k back.

              FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

              by Roger Fox on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 03:39:33 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

    •  Thank you (0+ / 0-)

      I too think we need to consider a variety of ideas  - ESPECIALLY when those ideas counter our "conventional wisdom".

      "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

      by Hugh Jim Bissell on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 02:17:27 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site