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View Diary: Plea from Translator 20121115: Chief Joseph (38 comments)

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  •  As usual, it's more complicated than that... (6+ / 0-)

    ...having grown up in the heart of part of the summer land of the Nez Perce people on the Camas Prairie of Central Idaho (which was also the area in which may of the early conflicts of the "Nez Perce" war took place) , I've heard all of the discussion about Chief Joseph's "surrender" speech.  That block-quoted Wikipedia entry seems to suggest that Charles Erskine Scott Wood wasn't present to have recorded the claim as is historically claimed and therefore invented the quote.  As General Howard's aide-de-camp, he probably was present at the surrender and doesn't offer through the penciled margin notes any suggestion that those words weren't spoken at some point somewhere.  The question is probably more likely whether that speech was part of that day or was from somewhere else:

    Wood claims to have written it down as Joseph spoke, but some historians believe that he recorded a speech Joseph gave to his chiefs in council as reported to Wood by two Nez Perce go-betweens.

    Other historians suggest that Wood took poetic license with the on-site translation of Joseph's surrender speech by an interpreter named Arthur Chapman.  We will probably never know the truth of this matter, but 'misattribution' is a bit harsh...

    "In a nation ruled by swine, all pigs are upward mobile..." - Dr. Hunter S. Thompson

    by Jack K on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 09:53:06 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  More, please! (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ontheleftcoast, Jack K, bythesea

      I am a history junkie!

      Warmest regards,

      Doc

      I would rather die from the acute effects of a broken heart than from the chronic effects of an empty heart. Copyright, Dr. David W. Smith, 2011

      by Translator on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 10:01:41 PM PST

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    •  I was having some fun with Doc (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Translator, Jack K

      He's usually amazingly fastidious with his work. This was about as much of a "misattribution" as you'll ever find in his diaries.

      To me progress is not so much a goal as it is a process and I believe it will not follow a straight course. Remember, the drops of water that form the river may not take the shortest path but they will still reach the ocean.

      by ontheleftcoast on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 10:02:30 PM PST

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      •  Well, I was distracted. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ontheleftcoast

        She and I held hands and each other.  Dammit, I LOVE her, and she was here for me.

        Warmest regards,

        Doc

        I would rather die from the acute effects of a broken heart than from the chronic effects of an empty heart. Copyright, Dr. David W. Smith, 2011

        by Translator on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 10:09:36 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Oh, and now down to you, On! (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ontheleftcoast

        I really appreciate you!  You have always been near and dear to me, through thin or thick.  You are a very wonderful person, and I hope for us to be friends until the end of the world.

        David

        I would rather die from the acute effects of a broken heart than from the chronic effects of an empty heart. Copyright, Dr. David W. Smith, 2011

        by Translator on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 10:12:13 PM PST

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      •  You forgot the smiley emoticon for the rest of us (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ontheleftcoast, Translator

        ...I'll retire quietly back into the shadows of Lurkerville now...

        "In a nation ruled by swine, all pigs are upward mobile..." - Dr. Hunter S. Thompson

        by Jack K on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 10:12:24 PM PST

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        •  No, don't go! (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Translator, Margd

          As Doc said above, we love the backstory to history! It is way, way more interesting then the cookie-cutter, safe-to-digest history we get in school or on the TV machine.

          To me progress is not so much a goal as it is a process and I believe it will not follow a straight course. Remember, the drops of water that form the river may not take the shortest path but they will still reach the ocean.

          by ontheleftcoast on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 10:15:40 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I need my friends now. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ontheleftcoast

            I really do, now! I am not quite myself.

            Dave

            I would rather die from the acute effects of a broken heart than from the chronic effects of an empty heart. Copyright, Dr. David W. Smith, 2011

            by Translator on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 10:17:32 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

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