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View Diary: Obama Administration announces first offshore wind farm project (198 comments)

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  •  Most wind farms are sited by existing power lines (5+ / 0-)

    Also, please note that shipping power hundreds of miles is inherently wasteful, no matter what you think about how the power is generated and by what transmission means.

    •  balancing predictably fluctuating sources of power (7+ / 0-)

      on a regional scale allows a steady supply of power overall. decentralization when possible is always a good principle, but there is a need for rebuilding a 20th century energy infrastructure to meet the needs of the 21st. transmission lines are part of that.

      •  What you're saying doesn't have anything to do (0+ / 0-)

        with carrying out public electric generation utility practice.   Electric utility system operators are not engaged in managing "on a regionscale....steady supply of power"   Utility operators don't do that.   What they do is to balance their load with generation resources in their utility jurisdiction.   Most electric utilities do not want to be net importer or exporters of electricity on their utility systems.

        Investments in electric generation transmission resources are important, but they are not going to create the kind of activity you are describing.

        •  utilities already do lots of importing/exporting (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          power, at least on the west coast grid. CA and WA trade power back and forth, using WA's excess hydropower generation when CA has need of it, and then CA selling it back and WA letting the water build up at night.

    •  What do you mean by wasteful? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lurkyloo, Gordon20024, Roger Fox

      You can only "waste" a non-renewable resource, in that you have diminished the original stock but not received full benefit. For instance, if we extract ten thousand tons of iron ore and "waste" five hundred tons of it in the process, that five hundred tons is gone from the limited deposit we are mining but has given us no benefit.

      Wind energy is renewable and effectively limitless. We do not diminish the stock of wind by harnessing it, the way we diminish the stock of non-renewable resources by using them. Any power that is lost in transmission was free in the first place and its loss does not take away from anything. Thus even quite high losses in transmission are tolerable, so long as enough power gets through to economically justify the cost of the turbines and power lines.

      "They smash your face in, and say you were always ugly." (Solzhenitsyn)

      by sagesource on Sat Dec 01, 2012 at 01:48:06 PM PST

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      •  Ever hear of transmission line loss? (0+ / 0-)

        A nominal value for typical transmission line loss due to electrical resistivity in lines and system components might be in the order of 10% in typical in-utility-system distribution.   If you increase the required transmission line distance to generation sources hundreds of miles away, the amount of transmission line energy losses will increase with increasing transmission distance.

        I'd suggest taking a course in thermodynamics and electricity and magnitism before you commit further time and energy to setting national energy policy.

    •  Transmission will always be wasteful... (5+ / 0-)

      ...but ultra-high voltage lines vastly reduce the "leakage."

      But a good combination of conservation, distributed energy (like rooftop solar) and solar and wind farms connected to the grid will reduce the amount of transmission lines that are needed.

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Sat Dec 01, 2012 at 04:52:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  trans line loss> AC=7% DC=3% (0+ / 0-)

        If we replaced 100 gigs (out of 500gigs) of
        AC transmission capacity with DC, that would save the rough equivalent of 4 gigs, or 8 average size coal plants.

        Not a real life example, but idealized.

        FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

        by Roger Fox on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 06:46:49 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  In the past yes, but offshore (0+ / 0-)


      FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

      by Roger Fox on Sat Dec 01, 2012 at 08:15:05 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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