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View Diary: The Descent of Republicans (163 comments)

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  •  David Frum on Bill Maher was unconvincing (7+ / 0-)

    Frum kept trying to press his case that the GOP was really okay, honest, that all these bad things were just sort of bad optics.  Faced with the suggestion that the GOP had been corrupted by big money, Frum seemed to cling to his talking points, wanting to be an odd kind of mugwump, but not a terribly convincing one.  He is persona non grata in his own party, but not very credible as a midstream voice of reason.

    •  Frum is a traditional conservative (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GrannyOPhilly, dradams, JerryNA, lennysfo

      He's correct in saying that the extremist turn in his party is deeply harmful to it, but Frum's silly free market fundamentalism and neo-con views are as wrong as any other Republican's.  Frum's advice that the party should listen to him is of a piece with other Republican attitudes:  I'm right and you guys are wrong.  Do it my way and we'll be successful.  He might be slightly more right electorally than the extremists, but on policy grounds he's just as wrong.

      Citizens United defeated by citizens, united.

      by Dallasdoc on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 07:39:15 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The problem that Frum has is pretty simple, (0+ / 0-)

      which is that the far right extremism is unbelievably bad for the way he makes his living as a supposed Republican thinker.

      That's what leads him down the path of saying completely contradiction things, sometimes in the same sentence, as he tries to weave a path of accommodation between the moderately hard right wing and the slightly less hard right.

      He's still not accepting of the notion that the Republicans need to rediscover their "conscience" roots from the pre-Civil War days when there was already competition with the corporatists.

      The last election was a complete sell out to the the Kochs and the rest of the corporatists -- and there are damned few conscience GOPers left alive. He wants his bread buttered by the corporate interests while he waves seductively toward those who would have a GOP with at least a measure of integrity and actual concern for the nation as to opposed to the greedy little fucks they all are now.

      •  You're essentially right but you left a bit out. (0+ / 0-)

        There's the small detail that Frum grew up Canadian who became a rightist while campaigning for the left wing national party (New Democratic Party of all names!) way back when before he went to the States for his higher education.

        I'd suggest that his knowledge of American history doesn't reach back as far as "conscience" Republicans or even Teddy Roosevelt's "progressive" Republicanism at the end of the 19th and very early 20th Centuries.

        I agree that Frum's views are narrow, his history is weak to non-existent and that until the appearance of the Tea Party  as an organized movement within the Republican Party very happily hitched a ride on the rightward drift of the party.  At times he even helped to both steer and navigate that right turn.

        It's hard to claim to want integrity when you were one of the ones turning your party away from it at top flank speed the past four years.  Oh well, David, at least you have Stephen Harper to point to as a conservative success story.  If he'll even speak to you.

        We can live in today or live life not understanding yesterday is a cancelled cheque, tomorrow but a promise all while we piss on today.

        by TtfnJohn on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 05:20:29 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't think there have been any conscience (0+ / 0-)

          Republicans since I was born in 1943.

          And if I lft the impression that there is anything worth anyone's time in frum, I wasn't speaking plainly enough.

          Frum is to intellectual politics as Bolton is to diplomacy, but both need the presence.

    •  Frum is peddling his e-book about why the (0+ / 0-)

      Republicans lost this election, so he is all over TV. He can see a few more facts than most Republicans, but is entirely unable to draw the appropriate conclusions from them. This is the Bush speech writer who wrote The Right Man lauding W, while noting right there in the book that he had never met a more incurious man.

      He and other supposedly Conservative pundits are all talking about the Republicans taking the wrong tone, and shouldn't bash one interest group or another, but claiming that there is nothing wring with Conservative principles.

      The weird thing is that I have never heard any of them name a single actual Conservative principle that is not racism, bigotry, misogyny, or kleptocracy. If you look at actual Edmund Burke Conservative principles, they are all Liberal Progressive principles today. Religious tolerance. Civil Rights. Holding corporations accountable. Even Tax and Spend.

      Mere parsimony is not economy. Expense, and great expense, may be an essential part in true economy. Economy is a distributive virtue, and consists, not in saving, but in selection. Parsimony requires no providence, no sagacity, no powers of combination, no comparison, no judgment.
      And there you have the entire modern Republican party, and all of the European conservatives who have no ideas other than austerity.

      America—We built that!

      by Mokurai on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 10:02:38 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

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