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View Diary: Anonymous claims it stopped Karl Rove from hacking the vote (1044 comments)

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  •  Somehow I doubt if Orca (13+ / 0-)

    was supposed to be the vote-rigging gizmo. I do strongly suspect that there were/are/have been mechanisms in place in Ohio to "fix" the vote. However, since the election was lost anyway they decided not to pull the strings. Why commit a felony for no purpose?
    So, what I think is CT but less complicated. Occam's CT.

    I love it that Obama's channeling Harry Truman: "I don't give 'em hell; I just tell the truth and they think it's hell!"

    by sillia on Sat Nov 17, 2012 at 03:33:56 PM PST

    •  Orca was their database, wasn't it? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Donkey Hotey, erush1345

      There was a diary here by one of the OFA guys that really made it clear that it was the precision and the power of Obama's ground team and the data that defined this election.  It was a very good diary.

      I'd search for it but I can never get this search engine to work.

    •  Ohio Ran Significantly Below Polling Expecations (13+ / 0-)

      because among other things of forcing so many registered voters onto provisional ballots which are being counted today.

      Courts have upheld the voter identification recording clerical procedure that will allow disqualifying numerous ballots from legal voters.

      That plus the reduced hours has definitely resulted in voter suppression here in Ohio thru conventional means.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Sat Nov 17, 2012 at 04:23:20 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Once again, nobody was "forced" onto a provisional (5+ / 0-)

        While in perhaps 10% of cases, a confused pollworker gave someone a provisional who didn't need to use one, a vast majority of provisionals allowed people to vote who otherwise would have been turned away. Provisionals allow the board of elections to check on a voter who a. may have moved or had a name change without bothering to change their registration b. may have lived out of county and been properly registered there but now voted in their new county without re-registering c. may have sent for a mail-in ballot but didn't use it. d. opted to vote at the board of elections on election day.

        There is a good reason for this, and a good reason that ALL of the above should have been denied the right to vote if there were not provisionals. In all the above cases, a voter could easily vote twice without checks built into the system. The provisional IS that check. Would you prefer that those 300,000 people be turned away and told they weren't properly registered to vote or that since they hadn't bothered to send in the mail-in ballot they requested, they have lost their right to vote? That is what you are saying here.

        The clerical error involved in the court case is relatively rare and won't disenfranchise many people. It's the principal — that Jon Husted is a dick who opposes voter rights — that is so disgraceful. But it won't have much impact on the count (why he's an even bigger dick).

        Reduced hours turned out to be not that much of a problem, but largely because the Democratic Party and the Obama campaign pushed Husted to the wall on this. The patterns of early voting indicate that keeping much longer hours would have been semi-irrelevant. What they needed to do was to have more weekend hours and not dick around so long like Husted did that more people didn't know about the final weekend. But we had massive turnout anyway.

        Sorry to sound testy, but I have spent the last eight weeks working in the election system here, with another 3-4 days to go, and the amount of misinformation and paranoia here is really depressing me. We should be smarter than the teabagger who attended my friend's Republican Party this week and claimed that hackers changed ROMNEY votes to Obama votes and that Romney really carried Ohio.

        Neither his scenario nor yours happened, or could happen.

        Take the "Can't(or)" out of Congress. Support E. Wayne Powell in Va-07. http://www.ewaynepowell.com/

        by anastasia p on Sat Nov 17, 2012 at 05:16:52 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Can you do a lucid, step by step diary on howit (0+ / 0-)

          it works? When you have time.

          Thump! Bang. Whack-boing. It's dub!

          by dadadata on Sat Nov 17, 2012 at 05:55:02 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  What?My wife was forced to use provisional ballot! (25+ / 0-)

          In Ravenna, Ohio. Even though she lived at the same address for 5 years, and she voted the last 2 years. Many people I talked to were forced onto provisional ballots.

          From Gooserock's comment:

          Courts have upheld the voter identification recording clerical procedure that will allow disqualifying numerous ballots from legal voters.
          That's exactly what happened in my wife's case. After she changed her name when her and I got married this summer the Post Office screwed up and started returning all her mail to sender. The BOE sent her something in the mail and USPS returned it, so she was purged from the voter rolls!
          Neither his scenario nor yours happened, or could happen.
          I saw it happen with my own two eyes. It did happen in Ohio.
          Reduced hours turned out to be not that much of a problem
          In Portage County I waited 2 1/2 hours to vote the Sunday before election day, when there were... reduced hours! And I got there when it opened at 1PM. By the time I voted the line was nearly twice as long, those people likely waited 3 hours or more. The Record Courier incorrectly reported the line was "up to 2 hours", but I know what I saw.

          You may think you're keeping this site "reality based" by saying there wasn't rampant voter suppression in Ohio.

          But the reality I saw on election day was numerous, repeated, widespread instances of voter suppression in Northeast Ohio. It had to have affected results, there's no way it couldn't have. We were only able to overcome it because we overwhelmed them with massive voter turnout.

          "I read this- Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. I read every last word of this garbage, and because of this piece of $#!^ I'm never reading again!"-Officer Barbrady

          by Broke And Unemployed on Sat Nov 17, 2012 at 06:04:02 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I worked Election Protection, (13+ / 0-)

            taking calls from multiple states, and steering voters toward provisional ballots as a first resort rather than as a last resort when a problem arose, as they should be used, was a very common reported problem. In fact, we had a report of an entire precinct where the voters were being forced to use provisionals.  In some cases, we were actually finding these voters on their state's voter rolls when the poll workers had told them they weren't there.

          •  For some reason, anastasia p and her cohort (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            blueoasis, nycvisionary, madhaus, bondibox

            have a strong presence in these types of diaries, and berate anyone who questions the utmost integrity of the Ohio voting system, and the American voting system as a whole...and we're all supposed to genuflect at her experience and knowledge on the subject.  Then she says something absurd like what you just highlighted that proves she really isn't the expert she touts herself to be.  

            Republicans...What a nice club...of liars, cheaters, adulterers, exaggerators, hypocrites and ignoramuses. Der Spiegel -6.62, -6.92

            by CanyonWren on Sat Nov 17, 2012 at 09:02:35 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Expert or not (6+ / 0-)

              I don't appreciate the attempts at trying to put down a mere discussion of the story.  She and others don't have to believe it or agree with it in anyway.  They, along with others can simply say they think it's utter BS.

              But what is not BS is our shitty voting system in general.  If we trusted our system, there would never be any conversations of this kind period.

              CT or not.

              "No, I'm being judged against the ideal. Joe Biden has a saying: 'Don't judge me against the Almighty, judge me against the alternative." --President Barack Obama, 12/11/11

              by smoothnmellow on Sat Nov 17, 2012 at 09:16:50 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  Something doesn't seem right (0+ / 0-)

            If only your wife's name changed the post office wouldn't have done any return to sender.

            Did she change her address? If she did and the BOE sent a mailing to her prior address the post office will not forward it to the new address because the mailing informs the postmaster to return to sender rather than forward it. Even if there was a change of address set up with the post office they still wouldn't forward it.

            If your wife did not go and change the name and/or address on her registration she would not be in the poll book either under her current name or in the new precinct if she moved.

            In Ohio that will result in a provisional ballot. That isn't voter suppression. That is meant to keep people from voting more than once either under different names or in different polling locations.

            Many people move within the same township or city and don't bother to change their voting registration. That could lead to them being listed in the poll book in one polling location while they attempt to vote in another where their name doesn't appear. That can happen even if they moved straight across the street because the precinct boundaries could be drawn such that each side of the street is in a different precinct.

            As for the Sunday voting, this was the first election where early voting was allowed to occur on the Sunday before election day. So the hours weren't reduced on that day.

            •  Sighhhhhh..... (7+ / 0-)

              ....OK, here we go again.

              My wife and the post office:

              Did she change her address?
              No I said in my comment that she had been at the same address for 5 years. Yes we shacked up for a long time before we got married, and I don't apologize for that.
              If your wife did not go and change the name and/or address on her registration she would not be in the poll book either under her current name or in the new precinct if she moved.

              ...Many people move within the same township or city and don't bother to change their voting registration.

              She took care of the name change in September. There was no "new precinct", it's the same one she voted at in 2008, 2010 and 2011. The BOE sent her something in the mail and USPS returned it, so some kind of asterisk was put next to her name, and they made her vote provisional.

              We're really not sure why USPS started returning her all her mail to sender, but our roommate moved out about the same time she changed her name, so maybe they accidentally removed her name from this address. But that did happen and USPS admitted their mistake. Our lives were really affected when important mail just never arrived. The Ravenna post office has had a long history of screwing up our mail.

              That isn't voter suppression. That is meant to keep people from voting more than once either under different names or in different polling locations.
              Tell that to my wife. She was pissed off,  "livid" to use her word. She didn't think voter suppression would be as common as it was, but it happened to her. We're both worried about 2014.
              this was the first election where early voting was allowed to occur on the Sunday before election day.
              There was Sunday voting in 2008 in Ohio, there were "souls to the polls" efforts from churches. I had trouble finding articles from 4 years ago, but I found this article from CNN about Sunday early voting in 2008, apparently there were long lines then too. Voting was only open 4 hours on Sunday, less than other days so there were reduced hours.

              I'm getting really tired of being told that what I saw with my own two eyes just didn't happen and having to explain myself again and again and again and again and again. Voter suppression was rampant this past election, and 2014 will look a lot like 2010 if nothing is done and we just say "nothing to see here."

              "I read this- Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. I read every last word of this garbage, and because of this piece of $#!^ I'm never reading again!"-Officer Barbrady

              by Broke And Unemployed on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 04:23:23 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

    •  ORCA is the name that the public knows.... (13+ / 0-)

      ... for infrastructure that the public knows about.

      Now why do you think Rove didn't pay for independent stress-testing of his infrastructure?

      Hubris is an easy answer.  But not sufficient.

      1)  If the IT budget ordinarily allocated to stress testing had been allocated to something else, such as development of further infrastructure that was to be kept secret.

      2)  Independent testing would have found evidence of the additional infrastructure, and the testers could have blown the whistle.  

      We got the future back.

      by G2geek on Sat Nov 17, 2012 at 04:51:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Occam's CT (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sillia

      :-) I'm making a note of that. May I steal it?

      At every crossroads on the path that leads to the future, tradition has placed 10,000 men to guard the past.--Maurice Maeterlinck / In America we call these obstructionists Republicans--me

      by EverGrateful on Sat Nov 17, 2012 at 06:07:30 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Orca was what anon used to (8+ / 0-)

      find the way into the systems they wanted to hack. Don't think it was Orca itself that was supposed to rig the election. Then again, if I was going to rig an election, I'd want to know that the numbers I was substituting looked kinda sorta like reality or were at least believable. Orca could have given them more confidence that they weren't overdoing the rigging.

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