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View Diary: Anonymous claims it stopped Karl Rove from hacking the vote (1044 comments)

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  •  That's what I want to say, too (67+ / 0-)
    If I ever get the chance to meet the people who did this, I'd give them a great big hug and dinner would be on me.  As if such gestures even begin to match up to the rewards they should be getting for this.

    Because I'm an IT geek, too, I can totally see the veracity of what Anon is claiming.  I strongly surmise that the nay-sayers here really have little clue about the technical aspects involved, even as sparsely as they've been given by Anon so far.  Bravo for your voice in support, G2geek.

    Just because Mitt Romney was an idiot, surrounded by idiots, doesn't mean that the Corporate Powers That Be (remember, hundreds of millions $$$ donated to his election by .corps) would just let a little thing like legitimate democracy and actual voting to derail their juggernaut agendas.    It seems much more plausible to me that something went very, very wrong with the KochRove's hedge-their-bet-backup-plan agenda.   Karl Rove's total freakout on live TV is a real tell, as they say in body-language interpretation-psych.

    Nope.  I am really, really inclined to believe that the White-Knight Black-Hats aka Anonymous rode to our democracy-rescue like Knights Templar of olde. I doff my hat in deep thanks in their general directions.  :)

    •  :-) That was a real joy... (45+ / 0-)

      Watching KKKarl sit there and actually splutter and stammer and try to explain that a Democratic win just is not possible in certain traditionally Republican counties (he rattled off names of counties, and rattled off numbers and stats, totally losing his audience who were baffled by his b.s.).

      Jon Stewart had fun with that, too.  :-)

      As far as I am concerned, IF Anonymous did nothing more than allow honest voting to go through, that was enough.  I can live with accurate vote counts, even if/when I don't like the outcome.  Rigging election results with e-voting machines is illegal, immoral, unethical, brutishly nasty, and I'm sick and tired of Repukes rigging elections one way or another.  It's bad enough when they do gerrymandering.

      E-voting machines?  They need to be dismantled and recycled, made illegal..., and voting needs to be done by paper ballots.  The first run-through totals can be via optical scanners, but if the total is too close to call, they can be counted by hand out in the open where anyone can watch.

      [This, from a Minnesotan who remembers the '62 Governor's recount, the '08 recount that Al Franken won, and the '10 governor recount that widened the Dem's lead, and finally the Repuke conceded early because there was no way a finished recount was going to go his way.  We do paper ballots where we fill in the ovals next to the candidates' names, run the ballot through the optical scanner, if totals are within a small percentage, it throws the whole thing to a hand recount.  We also have easy voter registration, including (with proper forms of ID listed on the SoS web site) same day voter registration; once registered, if a person does not move, her/his name appears on the same precinct computer printout year after year, no ID is required - we voted that out this year; Repukes wanted a "free" picture ID for voting, and wanted that to be a constitutional amendment, so they put it on the ballot as a referendum.]

      Both Ohio and Florida need paper ballots.  If not the kind Minnesota uses, then they should go to mail-in ballots like Oregon.  Something, anything, where honest vote totals can be done via verifiable means, not rigged computer programs.

      I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

      by NonnyO on Sat Nov 17, 2012 at 07:22:55 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  paper ballot in Alachua County Florida (6+ / 0-)

        In Alachua County we have the bubble in scanned ballots. The voting systems vary by county in Florida as you would expect in an advanced democracy...

        •  Paper ballots & scanners... (6+ / 0-)

          ... are ubiquitous in Minnesota.  All counties have the same equipment.  [I'm uncertain what you mean by "bubbles."]

          If the totals are within a small percentage, there's an automatic hand recount (paid for by the state, mandated by state law).  If the totals are close but not within that small margin, then if a candidate requests the recount s/he pays for it.

          Minnesota has done many recounts.  We are kind of old hands at this.  Not only the statewide totals, but on occasion little small-town races, like for mayors or aldermen/women, county commissioners, etc., have occasionally been so close that in a couple of instances the hand recount revealed one candidate won by only one vote.

          We're very patient about all the recounts after all these years and all the recounts.  Once it's started, we believe they should be done with all due deliberation and must be absolutely accurate.

          [Media, on the other hand, is nutz about hurrying things along so they can make news headlines.  Idiots.]

          I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

          by NonnyO on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 02:00:33 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  I like the idea of a hybrid machine (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Cory Bantic, bnasley, sb

        Electronic voting can be done properly with a paper backup.  Every vote would print on a paper roll, each voter would then initial the printout before it scrolls away for the next person.

        The Virtue of Selfishness is not a driving manual

        by bondibox on Sat Nov 17, 2012 at 08:50:19 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  that version doesn't work. (30+ / 0-)

          That version can be hacked and make the paper roll look OK when in fact the votes have been flipped.

          This was demonstrated amply, by a university computer security team, and the demo is posted on YouTube.

          The paper ballot, filled in by hand, has to be the actual ballot.

          I know there are a lot of people out there who love computers and screens so much, that they want computers and screens in everything.  

          Sony just brought out a refrigerator that has built-in face recognition and opens automatically when you smile at it.

          OK, so I like chocolate chip cookies, and I want chocolate chips in everything, so how does it sound when I say there should be chocolate chips in the election system?

          There are times and places where old tech is the right tech for the job.

          Elections are one of those.  

          And the place for high tech in elections, is in the form of ubiquitous webcam surveillance of the vote-counting process, so anyone who's interested can watch up close from home.  

          We got the future back.

          by G2geek on Sat Nov 17, 2012 at 09:28:17 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Paper ballot has the EXACT same problem (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sb, WithHoney, billlaurelMD

            It's true, the electronically tabulated vote may or may not match the paper printout.

            But then how is a paper ballot, electronically scanned, any different?

            In the end what you want is the ability to audit accurately. In this situation a voter confirmed paper printout and a paper ballot serve exactly the same purpose.

            The Virtue of Selfishness is not a driving manual

            by bondibox on Sat Nov 17, 2012 at 09:38:51 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  true (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            blueoasis, UniC, NonnyO, sb
          •  What G2geek said: (8+ / 0-)
            There are times and places where old tech is the right tech for the job.

            Elections are one of those.  

            As I indicated up above, after all the recounts Minnesota has had (more than what made national news since some local races had to be recounted and in at least a couple of instances the hand-recount a candidate won by one vote) we've gotten pretty good at streamlining the recounts (which are always done in a public area so anyone can watch) and all the rules and regs are mandated by state law as to how to proceed.

            I suspect/hope we won't go the way of e-voting machines any time soon, in spite of some of the shenanigans the Repukes have been trying to throw at us (we voted down a constitutional amendment referendum about "free" voter ID cards on election day this year, as well as against the proposal for a constitutional amendment mandating marriage between one man and one woman).

            Whatever else happens, voters of all political persuasions absolutely know that the recounts can be done efficiently and above-board..., no "secret, proprietary software" in an e-voting machine that can be rigged.

            Low-tech paper ballots that the voter puts in the optical scanner her/himself.... yes, that IS the way to go for elections if one wants to be able to verify totals in the event of a hand recount.

            I love me some high-tech internet stuff and computer whiz-bang technology..., but not for voting.  Then I want to shade in the ovals in ink pen and have my vote counted properly.

            I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

            by NonnyO on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 02:14:46 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  no. please join me in our civic duty of counting (5+ / 0-)

          the actual ballots the first time.

          There is never any reason to give over this job to computers. These numbers are not too big to count by hand. If everyone could personally vouch for what they had seen transpire in their own local area, then we would know the election was true.

        •  We're abandoning all electronic voting in Ohio (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Wendy in FL, Wee Mama, NonnyO, PeterHug

          Slowly but surely. There's another problem with it beyond whether there's a paper backup or some powerful Jedi force can hack the machines. It's expensive to maintain the machines and keep them updated. I've always believed this is REALLY what the push to get jurisdictions onto touchscreens was about: making money. In Ohio in 2005, when our secretary of state Ken Blackwell mandated them, he said basically that Diebold was the only company that met his specifications. The following year, when he ran for governor, the first year the use of touchscreens was widespread in Ohio, he refused to release his income taxes. But we do know that at some point — maybe including while he was running  — he owned stock in Diebold.

          By the way, that election? On touchscreens? That Blackwell mandated into use the year he was running for governor? He lost by 22 points.

          I believe it was always about making rich Republican donors richer, not about stealing election by some mysterious high-tech mechanism.

          Take the "Can't(or)" out of Congress. Support E. Wayne Powell in Va-07.

          by anastasia p on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 05:25:14 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Oh! Jon should have Anon on Daily Show! (7+ / 0-)

        He could have an iPad or probably open source tablet where a head would be, with a manikin body.... that'd be hilarious!

      •  a hundred recs if i could! (24+ / 0-)

        Exactly right on all counts.

        And I can also live with losing elections as long as they aren't stolen.  

        In 2000 I accepted the MSM interpretation with only a bit of skepticism, and was "relieved" that a potential major crisis had been "solved in the courts" rather than turning into street violence.  This despite realizing that Bush wouldn't do squat about the climate crisis compared to what Gore would have done, and that inaction on climate could spell extinction for humans.  

        But I believed that the process had "worked."  By 2004 it was clear that something screwy was going on, and the news since that time has made amply clear what it was.

        No more of that.  "We won't get fooled again."

        We got the future back.

        by G2geek on Sat Nov 17, 2012 at 09:21:53 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  See, I didn't. (7+ / 0-)

          Florida's process was and still is clumsy and ridiculous.  They haven't learned a thing since 2000.  Furthermore, the matter was with the SC and its decision that could have been corrected by Congress invoking the Constitution and not certifying the vote.  That would have forced the House to vote for the President and if it still was Bush, then I would have accepted that decision because it would have been done in accordance with the Constitution.  Americans accepting less is why our vote is so vulnerable now.

          "No, I'm being judged against the ideal. Joe Biden has a saying: 'Don't judge me against the Almighty, judge me against the alternative." --President Barack Obama, 12/11/11

          by smoothnmellow on Sat Nov 17, 2012 at 09:44:09 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks, G2geek.... (9+ / 0-)

          I knew the FL count was haywire... I just couldn't figure out how.

          Then when $COTU$ came back with the judgment to give the office to the man I knew was the most incredibly stupid candidate I'd ever seen in my adult life, I knew something was wrong.  I'd been ranting about his stupidity since the "debate" when he said he "wouldn't do any nation-building" and he had seemed to agree that Social Security should be left alone (later, of course, he tried to talk seniors into changing their minds and go with private accounts, and he was soundly trounced by oldsters in a senior citizen's meeting with him - by then he had illegal and unconstitutional wars he couldn't pay for and wanted our Soc Sec monies).  I went on a long rant in my journals about how stupid Dumbya was and how I didn't see how anyone could vote for anyone that stupid.  His body language said he was lying.  I journaled that 'if Bush were elected, he'd invade Iraq to finish his daddy's war, and we'd go into a recession.'  Every time someone said they'd like to have a beer with him, I went off on another rant about his stupidity.

          I was heartily disappointed in Gore's meek concession..., just as I was heartily disappointed in Kerry's meek concession in '04 when I knew the e-voting machines were rigged.  By then I'd had a computer and internet for three years (didn't have 'em in 2000), and was on political blogs, so I knew OH was stolen by rigged machines.  Still, my disappointment knows no bounds when it comes to the knowledge that neither man fought on behalf of the voters who only wanted their votes accurately counted.  I could have lived with a long recount process; in some things I'm patient, especially since accuracy is necessary and wanted.

          I have zero knowledge about Anonymous, but IF they did do what they said on the video and stopped Rove from rigging the e-voting machines (and just let an accurate count take place), then I'm happy they stepped in.  For a couple of years I've been scared spitless that OH and FL would once again have rigged elections since they learned nothing from 2000 & 2004.

          Someone with some kind of common sense needs to take over the election process in both states, from easy voter registration to paper ballots that can easily be recounted.  It is my fervent wish that both states (and any others with questionable voting processes) find someone brave enough to make sensible changes in each state.

          I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

          by NonnyO on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 02:34:30 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  "You can't get fooled again!" Ah GW-how the Iraqis (5+ / 0-)

          miss you... with every shoe that's launched in your head's general direction.

          (this has been my comment on FaceBook since 2009): Political Views - Democratic Party - OBAMA & NETROOTS NATION - Yes We Did. YES WE CAN. Yes We Will... again. *** OBAMA 2012 ***

          by VT ConQuest on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 03:36:29 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Charlie Crist got Florida on paper ballots (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NonnyO, tommymet, OleHippieChick, Cedwyn

        after the '06 debacle in my congressional district that had votes flipping to Vern Buchanon (now a tea bagger) from the democrat, Christine Jennings. Voters that didn't catch it in time....too bad so sad. In heavily African American districts, no vote was recorded in the race: an "undervote" at the top of the ticket. Riiiggghhht. Of course Vern won.

        So Charlie mandated no more electronic voting machines. We went optical.

        "At stake are not just the details of policy, but fundamental principles of social justice and the character of our country." ~Sen. Ted Kennedy

        by Wendy in FL on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 07:01:11 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  I think so too based on my professional exp. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blueoasis, rioduran, UniC, sb

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