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View Diary: The Breaking Dawn murder plot and our love affair with guns (115 comments)

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  •  Should have phrased that as assault weapons (1+ / 0-)
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    My apologies. Thanks for noticing that. I will have that corrected. I was not referring to assault rifles.

    •  And in so doing (18+ / 0-)

      you'll go from misusing a term with real meaning to using a term that has none.
      This is an amazing diary. it must be a first.
      An incident was thwarted by proper action and you STILL use it to issue a call to infringe the rights of the law abiding based on the actions, or contemplated actions, of a madman.

      "That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State ..."- Vermont Constitution Chapter 1, Article 16

      by kestrel9000 on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 09:13:20 AM PST

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      •  Sorry about that (5+ / 0-)

        Forgive me for trying to use reason and logic. I won't repeat that mistake.

        •  Didn't see any of that in your diary, sorry. (12+ / 0-)

          "That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State ..."- Vermont Constitution Chapter 1, Article 16

          by kestrel9000 on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 09:17:58 AM PST

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        •  So far, you've done nothing to repeat.... n/t (0+ / 0-)
        •  Reason and logic are best served (8+ / 0-)

          by everyone speaking the same language.

          And, for meaningful discussion of firearms regulation to be possible, that language must include data regarding the nature of the firearms we're thinking of regulating, so that we can decide which firearms to regulate, how to regulate them, and what are the best set of regulations for each type.

          This is the point at which a discourse on the term "assault weapon" becomes relevant.

          In short, it's a made-up name, invented by an organization whose publicly-stated purpose is to eliminate the private ownership of firearms.

          Ths is the long version:

          The invented phrase "assault weapon" does have a mostly-agreed upon meaning. Here it is:

          A semi-automatic firearm having the following chacteristics:

          1) A long gun (rifle or shotgun).
          (Handguns, regardless of features, have never been included. Although the Brady Center has, post Heller and McDonald and post expiration of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, begun to include handguns n the category in their recent press releases. we still more frequently hear "handguns wth assault clips.")

          2. Detachable magazine
          (Fixed magazines, whether box (like the SKS or Ruger 10/22) or tubular, (like many semi-auto .22s and almost all semi-auto shotguns and lever actions,) make a firearm not-an-assault-weapon by definiton, regardless of other features. The only partial exception I'm aware of is the SKS in California, which is an "assault weapon" under State law if it has either been modified to accept detachable magazines (for gunnies who know what this means: bullet button applies) or came with them from the factory (basically one model of Chinese Norinco SKS), or if it has the NATO grenade launcher, (which is only the Yugoslavian Zastava 59/66... the "grenade launcher" is a steel ring brazed around the barrel.) Other than that, a fixed magazine rifle can have any of the other characteristics and still nt be an "assault weapon.")

          3. A pistol grip stock
          (Despite Representative Carolyn McCarthy's description of this as "a shoulder thing that goes up," this does actually have a meaning. A pistol  grip stock is a long gun stock that has a downward projection below the lower line of the shoulder stock that the fingers of the rigger hand can wrap around.

          4. Fires a centerfire (as opposed to rimfire... the two words refer to different methods of putting a substance that ignites when struck in close proximity to the gunpowder)  cartridge.
          (All shotguns and almost all rifles are centerfire, except the .22 family (.22 short, .22 long, .22 long rifle, .22 Magnum, .! 17 HMR and .17HM2) and a bunch of obselete black powder rounds from the 1860s.)

          If ou read carefully, the single most inportant factor in determining whether a particular firearm is os is not an "assault weapon" is...

          The shape of the stock.

          In order for this regulation to make any sense at all, we will need to establish that the shape of the stock has a controlling influence on the lethailty of a firearm, or on its suitability for misuse. In almost 20 years, nobody has ever been able to do this.

          Until that can be demonstrated, the Federl Assault Weapons Ban and all (mostly identical) State bans must logically be presumed to be "feel-good" laws, designed to create an emotional impression that the Government is "doing something," without having any actual, measureable effect in the real world.


          "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." -- Emiliano Zapata Salazar
          "Dissent is patriotic. Blind obedience is treason." --me

          by Leftie Gunner on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 07:12:28 PM PST

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      •  Guns don't kill people (5+ / 0-)

        Guns don't kill people; people with guns kill people.

        "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

        by Hugh Jim Bissell on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 09:24:02 AM PST

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      •  Just like the cat here in Tucson who did not pull (7+ / 0-)

        his concealed weapon because he assessed the situation and realized it was not needed only for the regular group of yahoos to excoriate him because he almost pulled his weapon........

        There is a group who no matter the situation will find reason to complain about the lack of gun laws....even though 95% of the time what they want is already law........

        Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
        I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
        Emiliano Zapata

        by buddabelly on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 04:05:04 PM PST

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