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View Diary: President Obama can and must take serious action on climate change with and without Congress (160 comments)

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  •  Did I write N E W generation? (1+ / 0-)
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    A Siegel
    Right now new Wind generation is just about the cheapest electricity on the planet, 3.3 to 6.5 cents per KW hour
    .

    Well, kind of. This would have been clearer>

    Right now new Wind generation is just about the cheapest new generation on the planet, 3.3 to 6.5 cents per KW hour.

    FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

    by Roger Fox on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 09:11:30 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Perhaps I should (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Roger Fox

      have written, "to clarify because while I'm pretty sure you understand but others might ..."

      Truth is that people frequently conflate and confuse these.  I can't count the # of times where I've had (semi-informed) advocates of new nuclear power make the argument that "nuclear power is the cheapest electricity going on the grid" and had them confused because they didn't realize the economic structure (100% paid off capital costs which, putting aside that minor annoyance of decommissioning, is about 85% of the per kWh costs) that makes today's nuclear power cheap to send to the grid and why that is essentially irrelevant to the question of what one build's today.

      Also, by the way, there is the issue with your prices in that this is not the dispatchable price -- perhaps add 1 cent for storage / power management?

      In any event, my more serious disagreement is that I think these are not aggressive enough numbers in terms of targeting clean electricity (look at what Germany is achieving with the Energiewende).  Not only can we do even better than this, we should ... However, if we set targets along the lines you've laid out, we can 'surprise ourselves' with the rapidity of success and barrel past those figures.

      Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart NOW! for a sustainable energy future.

      by A Siegel on Tue Nov 20, 2012 at 03:58:17 AM PST

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      •  LCO cost to generate from (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        A Siegel

        Berkeley Nat Lab.

        Right.... not dispatchable, but Levelized Cost of Operation over 20 years is common, no?

        Barrel past, oh yes.... When Vesta or GE comes out with a 16mw turbine, even if the cost to generate doubles, output is quadrupled, so we can see the Berkeley numbers cut in half. And that would be very attractive.

        RE conflating, U R right, comparing new generation to new generation is OK. Old compared to new is not.

        FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

        by Roger Fox on Tue Nov 20, 2012 at 02:27:03 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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