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View Diary: Is it possible to keep the Israelis from committing suicide and draging the world down with them? (29 comments)

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  •  You want the cold cruel answer? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    don mikulecky, Odysseus, WakeUpNeo

    Displaced peoples of all varieties are inconvenient to the victors of wars - and even more so to the losers, who are expected to carry both the economic and psychological burden of transitioning everyone on the losing side to lower expectations.

    Israel, victor of repeated wars with its neighbors, merely has to apply a relatively light touch (and that is truly all we are witnessing this week, the least reminder of what could happen to every country in the region, all at once) to remind the Arab world: "You lost. You lost over and over again. We're even stronger now. Now take out the trash."

    And they will do it...until they no longer have to do so.

    And this is the tiger by the tail. Israel dares not loosen the leash it holds on its neighbors, not the least bit. Because the tiger is pissed.

    The only way Israel survives in the long run is if the Muslims - since this is now a Islamic-Israeli quarrel not an Arab-Israeli one - turn on one another and ignore Israel. Looking out the Internet window at the news...so far, so good if you're Israel.

    Of course, the world at large can't abide the self- or outwardly-prompted immolation of the Arab/Islamic/Oil producing world. So it puts the brakes on too much disruption near "its" oil supply, regardless of the source.

    So long as the oil and natural gas keep coming, the East and West alike care very much about the Middle East...and it not blowing up or being blown up.

    When the oil stops flowing...no one's going to tap the brakes, and that final round of wars will commence.

    So in a strange way, dependency on foreign fossil fuels helps stabilize the region. The moment countries like America and China stop caring (because their cars are all electric and their factories are all runnng on solar)...the Mideast will have to find another mechanism for stability: either the peace of friendship... or the peace of the grave.

    So far, the Mideast is just picking at old scabs. Give it, oh, 20-30 years. That's when the choice: live together, or die together, will be entertained for real.

    •  And we have sort of survived our (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      corvo, lotlizard

      genocidal treatment of the Native people here.  But what do we have to show for it?  A very sick, cruel, warlike, greedy and destructive nation.  It seems clear to me that we will pay in the end.

      An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the moment. It stands or falls on its own merits.

      by don mikulecky on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 04:22:33 PM PST

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      •  That's a case of one side with overwhelming might (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        don mikulecky, Odysseus

        on the scale of, say, a hypothetical interstellar civilization showing up tomorrow and making short work of the nuclear superpowers.

        Even a far gentler Spanish Empire, et al, would have obliterated the relatively fragile cultures of the Americas.

        This does not excuse the rapine and savagery of the Conquest of the New World...but the end result, the  near-complete marginalization of the First Nations, was all but inevitable. (Hold on, more on that in a bit.)

        Circling back to the Middle East. The moral choice - to be good, or not, to make amends, or not - and the consequences of same - are on more equivalent ground in the contemporary Middle East.

        And back to the Americas...we are at the point of being able, from both sides of Native American relations, to discuss remedies, atonement... making right what it is possible to make right.

        That cultural gulf was once far more vast than that between Arab and Israeli. It's not been that long in North America since formal peace treaties (and breaking of same) was the normal pattern of activity between the United States and nations like the Dine and Oceti Sacowin (aka the Navajo and the Sioux) was hardly one of mutual regard. Oh, no. Not even.

        So, maybe there is hope. And time. And fortune enough to get both in needful measure. And wisdom sufficient to use the gifts fortune gives to their fullest.

        •  Just a small observation on the (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          don mikulecky, cskendrick

          "Conquest of the New World": the decisive factor was the massive epidemics caused by "Old World" diseases, not overwhelming military might. Even measles proved deadly to previously unexposed populations. By the time Spanish soldiers actually arrived in an area, the diseases, which traveled much faster, had already wiped out the local population.

          "I had seen the universe as it begins for all things. It was, in reality, a child's universe, a tiny and laughing universe." Loren Eiseley

          by cadejo4 on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 04:52:19 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

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