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View Diary: Shocking World Bank Climate Report 'A 4 degree C World Can And Must Be Avoided' (98 comments)

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  •  California has recently taken steps to control (21+ / 0-)

    carbon emissions and the initial efforts look encouraging.  Let's hope they have set a strong enough example to change the way we cope with carbon emissions on a national level.

    The carbon problem has now reached into outer space, which will produce a reverse effect to global warming...the atmosphere in outer space will become colder, which will cause a new set of problems.  We can't begin to address this problem soon enough.

    Thanks beach babe in fl for posting this diary.

    •  more than 1,000 new coal plants are planned (37+ / 0-)

      globally.  We need to go after the financiers of these plants

      Most new coal-fired plants will be built by Chinese or Indian companies. But new plants have largely been financed by both commercial banks and development banks. JP Morgan Chase has provided more than $16.5bn (£10.3bn) for new coal plants over the past six years, followed by Citi ($13.8bn). Barclays ($11.5bn) comes in as the fifth biggest coal backer and the Royal Bank of Scotland ($10.9bn) as the seventh. The Japan Bank for International Co-operation was the biggest development bank ($8.1bn), with the World Bank ($5.3bn) second.

      Macca's Meatless Monday

      by VL Baker on Tue Nov 20, 2012 at 06:29:10 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  What are you talking about? Please provide (5+ / 0-)

      links to the process you describe. I've never heard of a theory involving the atmosphere in outer space getting colder. Are you referring to the Thermosphere?


      Vote Tea Party Taliban! Bring the Burqa to America.

      by Pescadero Bill on Tue Nov 20, 2012 at 08:43:09 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I believe what he's talking about (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Lujane, elwior

        is the fact that the energy input to Earth from the Sun is essentially constant over this small period of time.  Given that the increased CO2 in the atmosphere traps heat close to the ground, it follows that less of that energy is radiated back into space as heat, which in turn means that the UPPER levels of the atmosphere will become colder with time.

        I am certainly not an expert in this, and I don't have any links other than the wiki article, but my understanding is that (i) lower stratospheric temperatures will increase stratospheric cloud formation, which in turn increases ozone depletion over the whole globe instead of just the poles; and (ii) increasingly violent storms will begin to inject water vapor into the stratosphere, which is quite effective in degrading ozone as well.  The two processes together have the potential to reduce the ozone layer globally (not just at the poles) to the point that humans and other animals will have significantly increased risk of cancer if they're outside, coral reefs will be bleached even more rapidly than currently, and plants will begin to be adversely affected as well.

    •  Re: carbon in the thermosphere, here's an (0+ / 0-)

      article from the BBC touching on the problem:

      The potential of the huge quantities of carbon dioxide (CO2) pumped out by human activities to warm the Earth's surface is a well understood concept.

      But hundreds of kilometres above Earth, where satellites circle and survey the planet, the gas is having the opposite effect.

      Scientists at Southampton University, UK, have discovered that cooling caused by increased CO2 in the thermosphere is lowering atmospheric density, which could prolong the time a satellite stays in orbit.
    •  ???? (0+ / 0-)
      "the atmosphere in outer space will become colder, which will cause a new set of problems"
      A couple of questions:
      - How is the carbon escaping the atmosphere?
      - Once it gets out of the atmosphere, what's making it stay near enough to earth that it could affect temperature from there?
      - How is it creating conditions that would do anything other than further warm the atmosphere beneath it?
      - How many degrees of temperature difference is it making?
      - What is the problem set that will be caused?

      I ask, because in my understanding, the temperature of "space" near earth ranges from approximately 123℃ (254℉) on the sunny side of earth, and -233℃ (-387℉) on the shady side, with variations depending on solar flares and other phenomena. That's a typical 641 degree Fahrenheit temperature variation per day. It's hard to imagine any temperature effect whatsoever from an infinitesimally tiny change due to "stuff" escaping the atmosphere.

      In addition, if something has enough velocity to escape the atmosphere, then it doesn't generally just stop and hang around just outside the atmosphere, it slides off into space, because space is a vacuum and presents no resistance to slow the stuff down. This is why rocket science is hard. Making it so what you're sending up doesn't just fly away in a straight line when it leaves the atmosphere takes just the right amount of energy exerted in just the right direction at just the right time relative to the mass of the object that's leaving the atmosphere.

      And finally, the reason the oceans are in trouble is because CO2 is drawn down from the atmosphere - this is why it comprises such a large percentage of the mass of sedimentary rocks. This is also why the oceans are becoming more acidic - from the carbolic acid forming as the CO2 is absorbed into the water.

      The only reason there's so much up there right now to cause our warming problem, is because we're forcing it up there more rapidly than it can fall back down and be absorbed.

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