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View Diary: Lincoln's Folly: Let the States Secede (73 comments)

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  •  Losing WWII would be huge (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Notthemayor, Wee Mama, Rashaverak

    And I don't think a Divided States of America finds it nearly so easy to win.  What if the CSA sides with the Axis?  

    But in the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope.

    by thezzyzx on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 05:32:30 AM PST

    •  Hell, what if the CSA allies with the Kaiser? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Wee Mama, Rashaverak, bubbajim

      "I don't give them Hell. I just tell the truth about them and they think it's Hell."

      by Notthemayor on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 05:36:44 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Much more likely that the North would side with (0+ / 0-)

        Kaiser. Many in the Midwest advocated it before actual entry into war.

        Why would a Libertarian CSA have more affinity with Germany - the Kaiser's or Hitler's - than a Communitarian USA?

        Southerners didn't elect Joseph McCarthy or support the German-American Bund.

        Finger-pointing is useless. All Americans are the beneficiaries of a campaign of genecidal conquest, and you want to claim the moral high ground on the basis of a higher level of support for social welfare programs in your favored region.

        The working poor haven’t abdicated responsibility for their lives. They’re drowning in it. -Ezra Klein

        by bubbajim on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 07:12:04 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  When I said "you" I meant original poster. (0+ / 0-)

          Sorry, notthemayor.

          The working poor haven’t abdicated responsibility for their lives. They’re drowning in it. -Ezra Klein

          by bubbajim on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 07:13:13 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Two campaigns of genocidal conquest, actually. (0+ / 0-)

            One in the Americas and one in Africa.

            (Well, perhaps more like a series of smaller campaigns of genocidal conquest in the two locations.)

            And on the cheery note...

            "I don't give them Hell. I just tell the truth about them and they think it's Hell."

            by Notthemayor on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 10:14:21 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I assume that the original poster assumes (0+ / 0-)

              that emancipation exempts the non-former-slaveholding states from guilt in the African genocide. I'll give that a pass. But how can anyone claim not to benefit from the theft of the very continent on which we live?

              One of the chief errors non-historians  make in examining history is to judge the actions of those in the past by the standards of the present. It's not very intellectually honest to look at the past that way. But if one is going paint all Southerners as racist theocrats one can just as well paint all Americans as a murdering horde.

              I realize that the real beef is with the way a majority of the electorate in the South votes in the present. I don't agree with that, myself. But it's the height of hypocrisy to pretend that all of our nation's ills can be laid at the feet of it's poorest, weakest region.
               

              The working poor haven’t abdicated responsibility for their lives. They’re drowning in it. -Ezra Klein

              by bubbajim on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 11:03:52 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  The 13 original states... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                FourthOfJulyAsburyPark

                Were all slave states, though 7 of them adopted emancipation.

                And a great deal of wealth was accumulated there through the Atlantic slave trade prior to its abolition.

                So all of those states share in the original sin of slavery.  And the non-slave states admitted afterward were certainly not bulwarks of racial equality.  Antebellum Illinois was certainly no less racist than antebellum Kentucky.

                I suppose it would be folly for me to pretend that I can understand the mind of the south, if such a thing can even be said to exist.

                It's not just coincidence, I suspect, that the maps of current electoral outcomes mirror the maps of slaveholding America.  The question is why.

                I don't think that racism can be dismissed as a factor, though racism is certainly not exclusive to the south.  

                Outside of the race issue, what are the explanations for the shortage of progressivism in the south?

                As for secession, which is where this whole thing started, I see no reason to treat the online ranting of a few lunatics as an indication of the sentiment of an entire region.  

                Or to consider signing one of these ridiculous online declarations of separatism equal to the actual act.  I'm certain many of those who signed them would not really, actively support the concept if the issue became real.

                Ah, this country and its ghosts...most of which, sadly, are not friendly ones.

                "I don't give them Hell. I just tell the truth about them and they think it's Hell."

                by Notthemayor on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 11:38:17 AM PST

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          •  Who me? (0+ / 0-)

            What was it you wrote again? I can only scroll down.

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