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View Diary: SoS Hillary Clinton and Egyptian Foreign Minister Announce Cease-Fire Between Hamas and Israel (163 comments)

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  •  Apparently the cease fire deal includes (5+ / 0-)

    a plan to lift border restrictions and discuss an end to the siege. It's said when we're at a point when that would be progress but that IS progress. The rest is what is really difficult, sure, but making steady incremental progress will be key to at least stopping the violence on both sides.

    I don't know how we resolve the borders....

    •  If the restrictions are lifted (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jrooth, corvo, poco

      to an extent sufficient to permit real economic development in Gaza, that will indeed be hugely positive. I doubt we'll be seeing that: what will likely happen is a repetition of previous border closure 'easings' that improve the quality of life somewhat, but without permitting the economy to function properly. But of course how it pans out is not set in stone: it will depend on how much pressure is applied to Israel, via other governments, by people like us.

      On borders, I'd recommend looking at this map (scroll down). We don't lack a solution, we just need to get Israel to accept it.

      •  Absence of rocket fire would be a big step (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        A. Israel is legitimately upset about it.
        B. It's given them a good reason to not even consider border negotiations.

        People have always claimed that the attacks happen because the Palestinians lack a voice in the process. They have one now. It's time for them to stop.

        •  The historical record (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          corvo, wu ming, poco, Tonedevil

          doesn't support this. In 2008 there was a ceasefire that held for some six months. In exchange Israel was supposed to ease or end the blockade, but didn't. Nonetheless the ceasefire held and rockets reduced to virtually zero. What happened? Israel violated the truce, rejected repeated offers to renew it in exchange for an end to the siege, and then launched Operation Cast Lead in December. So, Israel hasn't maintained the siege because of the rockets. It has maintained it despite the fact that by ending it it could have virtually eliminated the rockets a long time ago.

          There are two ways to respond to rocket fire, political and military. Politically, Israel could respond by ending the grievances that cause it, namely the siege and the occupation, both of which are illegitimate in any case. But Israel isn't prepared to do that, because it rejects the international consensus for resolving the conflict. And so, repeatedly, it goes for the military option, misleadingly describing it as defensive.

          "People have always claimed that the attacks happen because the Palestinians lack a voice in the process."
          Really? I haven't heard that. Seems much more plausible to think that the rockets occur against the backdrop of enforced economic deprivation, political unfreedom and military domination by Israel.

          Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but this ceasefire doesn't propose an end to the diplomatic boycott of Hamas, does it?

        •  (Though of course, I agree (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          corvo, poco

          that an end to Palestinian rocket fire and to Israeli violence in Gaza is hugely welcome).

    •  Do remember, that what reportedly held up the (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cotterperson, wu ming, Russgirl

      cease fire until today was that Israel was refusing to respond at all to the Hamas proposals. Which is why this is so bloody narrow. There is no guarantee that Israel will say anything but "No" to all of them while it insists that the international community protect it, but not them. This is Bibi, after all.

      •  I am certain, like you, that Bibi will not go qtly (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cotterperson, Russgirl, poco

        into the good night. He will do his usual brinksmanship to ensure that Israel has the strongest hand possible. But with te role that Egypt is playing, I think that hand is not what it used to be. This is the sad thing from an Israeli perspective and what many people have tried to warn them over the years. Intransigence has weakened the Israeli position, not strengthened it.

        •  it's a great thing (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SDuvall, Russgirl

          from any other perspective. Someday, maybe, we'll even break their stranglehold on our foreign policy.

          If we can help Libyans or want to assist the Syrians, what makes the Palestinians so different? They too are living under oppression....they cant' even resist peacefully...The Israeli government is no better than Assad in that regard.

          Each people has a right to thrive and to self-determination, not the least, the Palestinians.

          "In the depth of winter I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer."- Albert Camus

          by valadon on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 11:35:16 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        • is keeping on top as well... (0+ / 0-)

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