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View Diary: Why do so many folks here use the term "Old Testament" as code for barbarism? (265 comments)

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  •  I have come to expect disrespect of religion here (8+ / 0-)

    But I think it's uncalled for.  Anti-religious bigotry is the only bigotry I regularly see applauded 'round these parts.  

    Binders full of fail!

    by deminva on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 04:26:25 PM PST

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    •  We Pastafarians put up with more of it than you (14+ / 0-)

      will ever know.

      "the Agency continues to verify the non-diversion of declared material at these facilities and LOFs."

      by JesseCW on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 05:23:40 PM PST

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      •  Case in point (0+ / 0-)

        Binders full of fail!

        by deminva on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 06:01:18 PM PST

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        •  Get a sense of humor. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          millwood

          Really. DO you even know where the FSM comes from? It's satire.

          The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

          by irishwitch on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 08:25:42 PM PST

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          •  thank you nt (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            wildweasels
          •  I have a great sense of humor (0+ / 0-)

            I literally have a PhD in irony.

            And I know about the Flying Spaghetti Monster, which at one level I think is hilarious.  Certainly a sublime way of exposing the shortcomings of teaching intelligent design.

            But at the time I made the above comment, I had I think four recs for a serious post in which I lamented the reality that folks around here are inclined to encourage (and recommend) anti-religious sentiment, whereas there were six recs for a satirical post about nobody knows the troubles of pastafarians.

            And this in the broader context of yet another diary in which posters are happy to stop in, declare the Bible a horrifying piece of work, and its Jewish/Muslim/Christian readers a delusional bunch.

            So I found less humor in that comment and its reccers, because I was making what for me is a very serious point:  That we have this wonderful community here -- a community of which I've been a member for more than a decade now.  And we share our time, our enthusiasms, our intelligence.  And it's a safe place for posters of every race, for gay/lesbian/transgender folks, for the old and the young.  It's very inclusive.  But there's a high likelihood that, if you're religious, you're going to be made to feel like a second-class citizen here fairly regularly.

            I wrote "case in point" because nobody responded to my comment saying, Gee, I'm sorry you feel that way!  Instead, it became yet another occasion for folks to laugh about the FSM.  And then for you to tell me to get a sense of humor.

            Binders full of fail!

            by deminva on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 03:12:14 AM PST

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            •  To be perfectly clear, (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Deward Hastings, irishwitch

              being a reader of the bible no more suggests that one is delusional than being a reader of Twilight does.

              If you find yourself hanging out after school looking for boys who sparkle, however, there may be some mockery in the offing.

              "the Agency continues to verify the non-diversion of declared material at these facilities and LOFs."

              by JesseCW on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 04:44:58 AM PST

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    •  True (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lujane

      You really don't have to be a believer to discover that the Bible is a wonderful treasure. You need to learn to read it.

      But ignorance is ignorance, whether it's someone else's or ours.

    •  ' the only bigotry I regularly see applauded' here (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mbayrob

      Yes, demvina.  And I think that's the point of this diary.

    •  Hostility to the evident evils of many religions (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CroneWit, CA wildwoman

      generally, and Christian misuse of the Tanakh in particular, is not disrespect. That hostility is in the Bible itself. Unless you somehow think that G-d is an Anti-Semite. (I got a lot of grief for that Diary, but I stand by its regard for what Tanakh actually says, and some of the nasties in those comments later got Bojoed out.)

      Amos 3:1-2

      Hear this word that the Lord hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying,

      You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.

      Also, you can ask me about Buddhist Fundamentalists in Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Thailand, and China.

      America—We built that!

      by Mokurai on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 08:40:42 PM PST

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      •  Self criticism and the Biblical tradition (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        deminva

        Or you could go back to the Torah itself,

        Then Moses cried out to the LORD, "What should I do with these people? In a little while they will stone me!"
        The Tanach does not speak well of Israel (I use the word as it is used in the text, and not the modern sense).  And I think if you read the text as if you are a member of that community (as modern Jews do), it's much different than reading the text in the triumphal way many Christians read it -- as the "New Israel".   In doing that kind of reading, a Christian makes him or self external to the text.  The sins of Israel are not their sins; they are the Sins of the Jews.  It's the difference between the Wise Child and the Wicked Child of the Seder, if you think of it.  The traditional Christian reader separates himself from the community.   He can read about the errors of Israel as the mistakes of someone else, not touching on his own person.  

        I'm not saying that some Christians don't read the text in the same way as Jews tend to (i.e., that they see the errors of Israel as their own errors, and not the errors of the rejected Jews), but it's hard to read some of the comments in these sorts of diaries in that way.  Like the Wicked Child of the Passover Seder, they scoff at someone else's belief, rather than confront their own.

        [I]t is totally not true that Mitt Romney strapped Paul Ryan to the top of a car and drove him to Canada. Stop spreading rumors! -- Gail Collins

        by mbayrob on Wed Nov 21, 2012 at 10:14:04 PM PST

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      •  I agree (0+ / 0-)

        and I'm not talking "hostility to the evident evils of many religions."  Rather, as the poster below writes, I'm talking about hostility toward others' beliefs.

        The self-satisfied arrogance of many here who equate religious belief with irrational, even delusional thinking and are only too happy to tell you so.

        Binders full of fail!

        by deminva on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 03:17:40 AM PST

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