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View Diary: Abbreviated Pundit Round-up: The science behind the ignorance (62 comments)

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  •  A quote from Krugman's piece was exactly (10+ / 0-)

    the argument (successful in that particular case) I heard during school board meetings from citizens, many of them pastors of fundamentalist churches, making while urging a ban on teaching "critical thinking" in the 1970s:

    What was Mr. Rubio’s complaint about science teaching? That it might undermine children’s faith in what their parents told them to believe. And right there you have the modern G.O.P.’s attitude, not just toward biology, but toward everything: If evidence seems to contradict faith, suppress the evidence.
    Using that standard we'd still be in caves. By that standard elsewhere we see the Taliban and such. There is a strong reason civilized nations need to see that flat out wrong beliefs and ideas are not perpetuated generation after generation. Yet in this country we see increasing opting out through home schooling and such.

    One of my hypotheses about why the TP/GOP is so strong in the South, supported by some long term experience,  observations and some long ago look at the numbers, is that in that region particularly there was mass white flight into private church schools to avoid integration. The churches most active in setting up such schools tended to be the most "conservative" and that usually meant fundamentalist Evangelical.

    They became American madrassas, refusing to teach mainstream science because that conflicted with belief. Generations of white Southerners, many Westerners and no few elsewhere have gotten their complete "education" in such sealed environments.

    The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

    by pelagicray on Sat Nov 24, 2012 at 05:28:26 AM PST

    •  GOP has gone to that 'southern well' one too many (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      pelagicray, Aunt Pat, skohayes, vcmvo2

      times.....the strategy is dead.

      •  One hopes. Unfortunately it still seems to well (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        skillet, Aunt Pat, laurnj

        populate a core of absolute nutters in the House and Senate able to do tremendous damage at least in blocking actions.

        The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

        by pelagicray on Sat Nov 24, 2012 at 05:49:17 AM PST

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        •  That's why the Dems have got to organize.......in (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DRo, Aunt Pat, Egalitare, pelagicray

          TEXAS!!!....before Austin secedes....;-)

        •  The Southern political state of mind (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          pelagicray

          continues to elect "absolute nutters" not only to the federal legislature, but to state governments as well - from governors and legislators all the way down the ladder to highway commissioners and state regulators who spend most of their time working to get around federal regulations rather than figuring out how to implement them.

          The latest manifestation of this is the refusal of most of the states in the old confederacy (and only those states) to expand Medicaid under Obamacare.  Eventually they will be forced to do so because of pressure from one group of their constituencies or another, but, simply because of their pique that they couldn't overturn the ACA in toto, they are relegating their citizens to years of misery and their healthcare institutions to years of financial loss.

          "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

          by SueDe on Sat Nov 24, 2012 at 08:11:54 AM PST

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    •  Parents have been wrong before (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SueDe, laurnj, ratcityreprobate

      santa and jesus

      “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

      by skohayes on Sat Nov 24, 2012 at 06:44:18 AM PST

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    •  I'd have to see the numbers on that..... (0+ / 0-)

      .....because I lived down south and it seemed like the fundies sent their kids to public schools.

      My theory is that the fundies stayed in their churches until Reagan and every other Repub following politicized them, and they became a huge voting force for 30 years but are becoming kind of spent now.

      Show us your tax returns !!!!!!

      by Bush Bites on Sat Nov 24, 2012 at 06:55:24 AM PST

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      •  If the fundies' political power through (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        laurnj

        their churches is becoming "spent" now - of which I personally see no evidence - they are not going away whether they're defined by their religiosity or not.  They are now, and will continue to find ways to organize themselves by other means and through venues other than churches, and will continue to exert political influence.  They may be trading their salvation for mammon, but they're not changing their ideology.

        "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

        by SueDe on Sat Nov 24, 2012 at 08:21:31 AM PST

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      •  The trend I mentioned started way before Reagan. (0+ / 0-)

        Kennedy/Johnson era and integration. White flight from cities to leave an inner core of nearly all black public schools and a ring of suburban nearly all white public schools. The sudden rise of those church schools tended to take place in the smaller towns and cities, in non-urban counties where segregation by jurisdiction was not possible as in the case of the cities. There one saw private Christian schools sprouting like mushrooms on stable muck after a good rain.

        I will see if I can find some statistics on enrollment shifts for that period.

        The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

        by pelagicray on Sat Nov 24, 2012 at 09:05:31 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Some sample numbers and more discussion: (0+ / 0-)

        Desegregation in Clarke County (Clarke County with Athens, Georgia is home of the University of Georgia, not exactly one of the rural backwaters where, from personal experience, things were even more extreme. "Academy" was a common substitute for "school" attached to a church.):

        Today’s high school situation looks vastly different from in 1954, or even 1970. There has been massive white flight from the public schools in Clarke County, either to private schools or to neighboring Oconee County schools. In the 2002-2003 school year there were 4,815 high school students enrolled in the two public high schools in Clarke County and the one public high school in Oconee County. Of these students, 2,572 were white, 1802 were black, 320 were Latino/a, and 115 were Asian or Pacific Islander. In the Clarke County public high schools there were 1,710 black students, 273 Latino/a students, 82 Asian or Pacific Islanders and 1, 011 white students. While the racial breakdown of all three schools was 53.42% white, 37.42% black , 6.66% Latino/a and 2.39% Asian or Pacific Islander, the numbers were very different in Clarke and Oconee counties. 94.89% of black students were in the two Clarke County public high schools. 85.31% of Latino/a students attended the public high schools in Clarke County. Only 71.3% of Asian or Pacific Islander students attended public high schools in Clarke County, and a mere 39.31% of white students attended public high schools in Clarke County. Additionally, in the 2001-2002 school year there were three private schools in Clarke and Oconee counties that had a total of 495 students. The student body at Athens Academy was 86.4% white, the student body at Prince Avenue Christian School was 92.5% white, and the student body at Westminster Christian Academy was 96% white.
        A bit of give and take on the subject as of 2005 at     BaptistBoard.com as the hard core racist "academies" are sometimes integrating:
        As the new principal of a Christian School, I was told to make sure that the enrollment remained balanced between white and black. I did not give heed to this bit of advice as that obviously would be very discriminatory. I interviewed and accepted students without regard to race. Some of the classes became slightly black in majority. At that time most of the families of one church quietly withdrew from the school. Being ALL white students, the balance then became even more lop sided. This past year another church did the same thing. The school is known for its excellence academically and spiritually and that has not changed. The white flight has affected the racial balance and our overall enrollment has declined significantly.
        with response:
        Most Southern christian schools from the 60's on have been "white flight". They will not tolerate their children being a minority, influenced by what they perceive as "black" culture (language, attitude, music, heroes, etc).

        I know personally a hundred families that would not be comfortable with my children with such influences. They would home school or form another school rather than send them to a place like yours is now.

        A Google Books result for Inside America's Christian Schools
         By Paul F. Parsons  gives more background.

        It is my impression that many of these schools have begun trying to lose their identity as racist by accepting students of color, yet are now hard core cultural anti-science and the rest of the suite of "identity" of the past. With these schools cropping up in the early/mid 1960s their impact on a generation of people now hard core "red state" should not be dismissed.

        The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

        by pelagicray on Sun Nov 25, 2012 at 05:48:37 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  "You can either pick grapes til you're 80 or (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      laurnj, ratcityreprobate

      become a doctor. If you become a doctor, you'll learn things that challenge your parents' beliefs. Which do you choose?"
      In the long run, not a winning argument.

      You can't make this stuff up.

      by David54 on Sat Nov 24, 2012 at 07:12:52 AM PST

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