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View Diary: Behaving Like a Jew (187 comments)

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  •  "Why? Perhaps it's Talmudic values." (13+ / 0-)

    IMNSHO that is correct. Those values are inconsistent with the laissez-faire that has completely taken over the Republican party and has a lot of support in the Democratic party.

    And a major reason why we American Jews support Israel is that it to a great extent reflects those values as well. See this example of the beliefs of the ideological grandfather of the Israeli right, Ze'ev Jabotinsky:

    http://www.betar.org.il/...

    Israel today has high taxes, a very generous welfare system, draconian regulation of its financial sector (which is why it didn't have a banking crisis in 2008), government control over almost all land, great public transportation, low university tuition, and religious freedom for religious minorities. (Concerning the latter, it is ironic that there is actually more restriction on religious practice for Jews than for non-Jews.)

    The Likud in Israel is quite a bit  to the left of the Democratic party in the US. I know a number of quite liberal Democrats who became Likudniks once they made aliyah. While the treatment of non-Jews in Israel could stand improvement (in particular, the country is terribly segregated), non-Jewish Israels do share that very generous social welfare state. A mere hint that some Arab neighborhoods in Israel might want to be part of a future Palestinian state provoked riots a few years ago.

    And another major reason why we American Jews support Israel is the nature of Israel's enemies. Syria's ruling regime is kept in power via mass murder. Lebanon's ruling regime includes the anti-Semitic terrorist theocratic group Hezbollah. Both have kept Palestinians as stateless refugees. Hamas is similar to Hezbollah in its anti-Semitism and intolerance of progressive values.

    Most political movements in Israel now officially support the creation of a Palestinian state. But that won't happen until the terrorists either change or are put out of business.

    •  What a fucked up comment in this context (13+ / 0-)

      Jabotinsky was an ardent advocate of ethnic cleansing of Arabs at the dawn of the colonization of Israel in 1923:

      Any native people – its all the same whether they are civilized or savage – views their country as their national home, of which they will always be the complete masters. They will not voluntarily allow, not only a new master, but even a new partner. And so it is for the Arabs.

      Compromisers in our midst attempt to convince us that the Arabs are some kind of fools who can be tricked by a softened formulation of our goals, or a tribe of money grubbers who will abandon their birth right to Palestine for cultural and economic gains.

      I flatly reject this assessment of the Palestinian Arabs. Culturally they are 500 years behind us, spiritually they do not have our endurance or our strength of will, but this exhausts all of the internal differences.

      We can talk as much as we want about our good intentions; but they understand as well as we what is not good for them. They look upon Palestine with the same instinctive love and true fervor that any Aztec looked upon his Mexico or any Sioux looked upon his prairie.

      To think that the Arabs will voluntarily consent to the realization of Zionism in return for the cultural and economic benefits we can bestow on them is infantile.

      And so 90 years later, is it any wonder that the government of Israel and its apologists systematically dehumanizes Palestinians?
    •  Ridiculous. (7+ / 0-)
      The Likud in Israel is quite a bit  to the left of the Democratic party in the US.
      That's about the most false statement I've read on DKos since VB described a cartoon the other day.

      Likud is right up there with the teabaggers.  They're buddies with Avi Lieberman, who's the closest thing I've seen to a fascist since Mussolini.

      You really should try to refrain from commenting in TD's diaries.  You add nothing and make such ridiculous statements as the one I quoted.

      In fact, I wouldn't blame the diarist if he requested that you avoid commenting on his work entirely.

      Struggle with dignity against injustice. IS there anything more honorable that a person can do?

      by Celtic Merlin on Sat Nov 24, 2012 at 09:56:28 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Actual defenders of Hamas are few and (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sb, corvo, Friendlystranger

      far between on this site.

      Likud enthusiasts abound.

      "the Agency continues to verify the non-diversion of declared material at these facilities and LOFs."

      by JesseCW on Sun Nov 25, 2012 at 12:39:45 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  From what I've seen, (5+ / 0-)

        I don't think either are very common. The perception that someone is one or the other is quite a bit more common.

        "Okay, until next time. Keep sending me your questions, and I will make fun of you... I mean, answer them." - Strong Bad

        by AaronInSanDiego on Sun Nov 25, 2012 at 12:41:47 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Several of the Likuds supporters have (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          elwior, corvo, Smoh

          apparently shuffled off one way or another since I spent much time in diaries having to do with the subject.

          Several are still here.

          "the Agency continues to verify the non-diversion of declared material at these facilities and LOFs."

          by JesseCW on Sun Nov 25, 2012 at 12:47:03 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I do know that (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sb, Kane in CA

            several people have been accused of supporting Likud, despite having expressed that they don't. There are a few who support Likud, but the ones I know of have been banned for one reason or another.

            There are people who defend Likud from certain criticisms, but that doesn't mean they support their agenda, just as the people who defend Hamas from certain criticisms don't necessarily suport Hamas' agenda.

            "Okay, until next time. Keep sending me your questions, and I will make fun of you... I mean, answer them." - Strong Bad

            by AaronInSanDiego on Sun Nov 25, 2012 at 12:55:32 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  So you've gone from (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            volleyboy1, mahakali overdrive

            Likud enthusiasts abound

            to

            Several are still here.

            It can't be both. I'm not sure either is correct.

            •  Kane... you are wasting your time (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Kane in CA

              These morons think that Meretz=Likud, if they do that, how would you expect that they understand the differences in the Israeli polity? It is completely beyond them. In the non-reality based community anyone who is not part of their group is a full throated supporter of Likud - Betainu.

              There are a few Likud supporters here but, not many. The people they support Likud though are not those individuals. But hey a bit of stupidity never stopped anyone now did it?

              "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

              by volleyboy1 on Sun Nov 25, 2012 at 11:28:52 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

    •  Here's another quote from your link, charliehall2: (6+ / 0-)
      "Betar -
       The love of the entire land of Israel. Betar supports the concept of a Jewish state with a Jewish Majority in its biblical-homeland. The entire land of Israel as given to the Jewish people by G-d with it's eternal capital Jerusalem. We therefore wholeheartedly support the settlement of all of Israel including Judea, Samaria, Gaza and the Golan Heights, and support the rights of all Jews to live anywhere in Israel."
      Of course, many Jews in American and in Israel do NOT support an ideology that suggests that any people are entitled to any land belonging to others except through negotiation and mutually agreed upon fair compensation.  The so-called settlement practices of the Palestinian territories today simply lack the element of fairness.

       

      “Social Security has nothing to do with balancing a budget or erasing or lowering the deficit.” -- Ronald Reagan, 1984 debate with Walter Mondale

      by RJDixon74135 on Sun Nov 25, 2012 at 02:37:19 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  This is a fascinating statement: (6+ / 0-)
      Most political movements in Israel now officially support the creation of a Palestinian state. But that won't happen until the terrorists either change or are put out of business.
      So Israel shows its support for the creation of a Palestinian state by expanding the so-called settlements in the West Bank, destroying more Palestinian homes, claiming more Palestinian resources for its own use, etc.  But in charliehall2's conception, Israel is innocent.

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