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View Diary: Behaving Like a Jew (187 comments)

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  •  To be clear about my objection (1+ / 0-)
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    Kane in CA

    it is to this language from the diary:

    I'm simply stating what some are afraid to say: Jews, who make up only 1.2% of the U.S. population, are (in my ranging experiences) disproportionately represented in social action and progressive endeavors in the United States.
    And
    For deep down, existentially, Jews fear one thing more than any other: being exterminated. And Israel is literally and emotionally entwined (inextricably) with such survival.

    And so many American Jews allow themselves to largely be ignorant of or ignore the plight of the Palestinians. Not out of malice. But out of an uber-sensitivity and hyper-focus on Jewish victimhood, on Jewish survival.

    •  But the paragraphs you cite (4+ / 0-)

      don't mention government, and don't advocate that the representation should be less.

      "Okay, until next time. Keep sending me your questions, and I will make fun of you... I mean, answer them." - Strong Bad

      by AaronInSanDiego on Sat Nov 24, 2012 at 08:45:45 PM PST

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      •  Ah, my presumption then (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Kane in CA

        when saying that we are "disproportionately represented in social action," I did presume that meant in terms of our Governmental presence. Which is a better critique to make, I think, then to say we, as citizens, are disproportionately serving as activists? That never even crossed my mind.

        I don't think that there are too many Jewish activists either, and I also don't think that those Jewish activists who exist focus unduly on victimization and a fear of our ontological failure to survive. That seems really silly to me. I'm in my mid-late 30's. I don't feel victimized, nor do I feel like I'm going to be smited (smote?) out of existence by some harsh fist.

        Maybe I read the diary oddly? I don't quite see what this thing about victimization, hyper-sensitivity, and survival has to do with anything one way or another. And I don't like these stamps.

        •  I agree entirely (5+ / 0-)

          I find this bit of psychoanalysis:

          And so many American Jews allow themselves to largely be ignorant of or ignore the plight of the Palestinians. Not out of malice. But out of an uber-sensitivity and hyper-focus on Jewish victimhood, on Jewish survival.
          incredibly offensive. The claim here is that only enlightened Jews think differently. And the rest are are ignorant as a result of an inability to come to rational conclusions, blinded by hyper-sensitivy and victimhood.

          In a different context, these same accusations would be assailed here.

          •  I support a Palestinian State (4+ / 0-)

            and I believe what has happened is flatly atrocious. I have not minced words here, and my record on this is consistent. In addition, I have been an advocate/activist for anti-war, peace, and civil rights for most of my adult life in some capacity or other.

            And I don't like this sort of divisive rhetoric about Jewish people. Is it true that some Jewish people don't support a 2-State solution in the U.S.? Yes. 18% do not. Is that because they are thin-skinned, focused on their victimhood, and essentially being reactive to the Holocaust, which is what is embedded in this line of thinking? I think that's a broad brush to use toward people and falls into "blame the victim" mentality. People have political differences. I can't apply a broad-brush here. I think American Jews don't want to see anyone persecuted, to be honest. If anything, there may be a simple bit of remove from the situation in Israel for some. And like all people, others just don't believe the same things as other people do. There are a huge number of white people who definitely don't give a crap about Palestinians, or civil rights, or deaths, etc. so singling out "Jews" for this, from other Jews, it makes no sense to me to do that.

            But I did initially read it to mean Government (it was the bit about what I said, plus AIPAC, that made me think that, upon re-reading it).

        •  I didn't take the use of the word (14+ / 0-)

          "disproportionate" to be intended as a criticism, but rather a statement of pride that The Troubadour believes that Jews have been involved in social action in numbers greater than our percentage of the overall population.

          "Okay, until next time. Keep sending me your questions, and I will make fun of you... I mean, answer them." - Strong Bad

          by AaronInSanDiego on Sat Nov 24, 2012 at 09:38:20 PM PST

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          •  Hm, that's possible (0+ / 0-)

            but it seemed like it was a condemnation. There's been a ton of talk lately about disproportionate responses lately in discussions of Israel and Palestine.

            If I did read this wrong, understand that there's good reason for that. A quick examination of the synonyms for "disproportionate" reveals, for entry #2 (the first is split between neutral and negative connotations):

            Main Entry:     inappropriate
            Part of Speech:     adjective
            Definition:     not proper, suitable
            Synonyms:     bad form, disproportionate , foot-in-mouth, garbage*, ill-fitted, ill-suited, ill-timed, improper, inapplicable, inapropos, incongruous, inconsonant, incorrect, indecorous, inept, irrelevant, left-field, malapropos, off*, out of line, out of place, tasteless, unbecoming, unbefitting, undue, unfit, unfitting, unmeet, unseasonable, unseemly, unsuitable, untimely, way off, wrong, wrong-number
            Antonyms:     appropriate, fitting, ok, proper, suitable
            As you can see, these words largely have a negative connotation to them.

            As a synonym,  a more neutral "unequal" is a bit lower down at entry #6, below a spate of neutral-negative uses.

            Sorry to play English teacher. I'm not chastising your read, just explaining why that would (understandably) read differently to some. Who knows? Maybe I've read it all wrong and in the wrong light. I believe the intention of the diary was quite good, FWIW.  

    •  MO, it seems you've taken this in a way that (8+ / 0-)

      it was not intended. I never mention government involvement, and note Jews' representation in social action as a positive, not negative, element.

      I'm "THE" Troubadour," and not "Troubadour" without the article. We're different people here at DK :)

      by David Harris Gershon on Sun Nov 25, 2012 at 05:25:10 AM PST

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