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  •  Couple points here (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    volleyboy1

    First, PNAC, as a practical matter, no longer exists, though I suspect most of its members and supporters still maintain similar philosophies.

    Second, I've seen many membership lists, and can't remember seeing a single Israeli on the list.

    •  Although PNAC disbanded, members still at it. (0+ / 0-)

      Why are you making this point:

      Second, I've seen many membership lists, and can't remember seeing a single Israeli on the list.
      in response to my comment?

      My comment makes the point:  

      Having a blindspot to the plight of Palestinians pertains to most liberals of all ethnicities and religions.  

      Information is the currency of democracy. ~Thomas Jefferson

      by CIndyCasella on Sun Nov 25, 2012 at 08:15:51 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Because your comment (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        volleyboy1

        says:

        It [PNAC] is an organization of oil men, far right Israelis who want to....
        And the bolded part is/was factually inaccurate. Irrespective of what they wanted to do, they are/were not Israelis. They were Americans.
        •  You are right to have corrected me on that. I (0+ / 0-)

          didn't spend enough time checking this comment.  I meant to say far right on the spectrum of Israeli politics.

          Information is the currency of democracy. ~Thomas Jefferson

          by CIndyCasella on Sun Nov 25, 2012 at 09:02:06 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Are some of them dual citizens? I have read that (0+ / 0-)

          some of them are dual citizens of Israel and the US, but I can't verify it.

          Information is the currency of democracy. ~Thomas Jefferson

          by CIndyCasella on Sun Nov 25, 2012 at 09:15:22 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  The accusation that various American Jews (3+ / 0-)

            is a common one that feeds into an antisemitic theme of dual loyalty. It's partly based on the false idea that all Jews are automatically citizens of Israel. If you have a particular individual in mind, you might ask about that person, but otherwise, it's likely false. And you should pay attention to the biases of the sources you read.

            "Okay, until next time. Keep sending me your questions, and I will make fun of you... I mean, answer them." - Strong Bad

            by AaronInSanDiego on Sun Nov 25, 2012 at 09:54:57 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  sorry, meant to say (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Kane in CA

              "The accusation that various American Jews are dual citizens..."

              "Okay, until next time. Keep sending me your questions, and I will make fun of you... I mean, answer them." - Strong Bad

              by AaronInSanDiego on Sun Nov 25, 2012 at 09:55:37 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yellowcake anyone? All of us should be careful (0+ / 0-)

                about our sources of news.  Iraq war was based on lies that were  widely reported in the MSM, New York Times, etc.

                Information is the currency of democracy. ~Thomas Jefferson

                by CIndyCasella on Sun Nov 25, 2012 at 10:12:55 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  PNAC members lied us into Iraq War, and they're (0+ / 0-)

                now trying to "talk" us into a war with Iran.

                I don't believe anything PNAC former members say.  It makes me absolutely sick how they are on the MSM as "experts" when they were completely wrong about Iraq.

                They're evil, pure and simple.

                Information is the currency of democracy. ~Thomas Jefferson

                by CIndyCasella on Sun Nov 25, 2012 at 10:17:29 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  I don't think (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              volleyboy1

              there was any credible evidence that a single member of PNAC held dual citizenship. It was no more than an anti-semitic slur. That whole "dual loyalty" thing. That's not a defense of PNAC, I can't think of a single policy position I shared with them. But their perspective was uniquely American.

              •  Clean Break whitepaper (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                CIndyCasella

                Commissioned by Netanyahu in 95.  Foreign Policy Options for Israel.  Kristol and Perle wrote it.  a few years later, re-tooled and recycled as PNAC Foreign Policy  strategy for US.  Largely operationalized by GWB.  

                No evidence I know of any of the authors were dual citizens, and bad ideas are independent of national boundaries or loyalties.  

                http://en.wikipedia.org/...

                •  And rejected (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  volleyboy1

                  upon submission to Netanyahu.

                  •  Well, the weaning off US Aid part (0+ / 0-)

                    yup, that wasn't working for BiBi, but the rest, looks like the playbook.  

                    •  Netanyahu actually (0+ / 0-)

                      endorsed the idea of weaning Israel off US aid in a speech to the US Congress in 1996.

                      "Okay, until next time. Keep sending me your questions, and I will make fun of you... I mean, answer them." - Strong Bad

                      by AaronInSanDiego on Sun Nov 25, 2012 at 11:59:04 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  OK, then (0+ / 0-)

                        how did he reject the paper on receipt?  Looks like he bought into it.

                        •  I don't know about that, (0+ / 0-)

                          but I do remember the speech. That part of it received a lot of applause from both Democrats and Republicans.

                          "Okay, until next time. Keep sending me your questions, and I will make fun of you... I mean, answer them." - Strong Bad

                          by AaronInSanDiego on Sun Nov 25, 2012 at 12:20:18 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  I recall that speech (0+ / 0-)

                            And he, Netanyahu, pretty much adopted the recommendations in the white paper, except for weaning of us aid.

                          •  I wasn't aware of the paper at the time. (0+ / 0-)

                            But it's clear our memories of the speech are different.

                            "Okay, until next time. Keep sending me your questions, and I will make fun of you... I mean, answer them." - Strong Bad

                            by AaronInSanDiego on Sun Nov 25, 2012 at 01:01:00 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Found a quote (0+ / 0-)

                            from here, although it's not that explicit.

                            In 1998, when Israeli ESF stood at $1.2 billion, the Israeli finance minister arranged with Congress to reduce ESF by $120 million annually over 10 years while increasing annual FMF by $60 million. This plan went into effect in 1999 so that current Israeli ESF roughly amount to $600 million and FMF to $2.1 billion. The rationale behind this plan was first expressed as Israeli policy in a 1996 speech by then-Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to a joint session of Congress. Addressing the future of the U.S.–Israel economic relationship, Netanyahu said that, “I believe that we can now say that Israel has reached childhood’s end, that it has matured enough to begin approaching a state of self-reliance…We are going to achieve economic independence.” In stating this goal, Netanyahu had two major projects in mind: ending U.S. economic aid to Israel and reforming the Israeli economy into “a free market of goods and ideas.”22
                            I do see that economic aid (ESF) decreased, while military aid (FMF) increased.

                            "Okay, until next time. Keep sending me your questions, and I will make fun of you... I mean, answer them." - Strong Bad

                            by AaronInSanDiego on Sun Nov 25, 2012 at 01:07:31 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Yes economic aid has been almost zero'd (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            AaronInSanDiego

                            from WiKi, sort of supports your case in one instance.

                            Professors John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt wrote in their controversial and critical "The Israel Lobby" article of March 2006, published in the London Review of Books that the Clean Break paper
                            "called for Israel to take steps to reorder the entire Middle East. Netanyahu did not follow their advice, but Feith, Perle and Wurmser were soon urging the Bush administration to pursue those same goals. The Ha’aretz columnist Akiva Eldar warned that Feith and Perle 'are walking a fine line between their loyalty to American governments ... and Israeli interests'."[14]
                            Sidney Blumenthal criticized the report, writing:
                            "Instead of trading land for peace, the neocons advocated tossing aside the Oslo agreements that established negotiations and demanding unconditional Palestinian acceptance of Likud's terms, peace for peace. Rather than negotiations with Syria, they proposed weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria. They also advanced a wild scenario to redefine Iraq. Then King Hussein of Jordan would somehow become its ruler; and somehow this Sunni monarch would gain control of the Iraqi Shiites, and through them wean the south Lebanese Shia away from Hezbollah, Iran, an
                            d Syria."[9]

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