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View Diary: German Spiegel: "Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation" (317 comments)

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  •  Um, no (0+ / 0-)

    From wikipedia

    The European Union was formally established when the Maastricht Treaty—whose main architects were Helmut Kohl and François Mitterrand—came into force on 1 November 1993
    Spain joined by way of the Shengen Agreement in 1986, so by the time the EU was formally established 7 years later, Spain was a founding member.

    "crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government" -Thomas Jefferson

    by Phil In Denver on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 03:16:49 PM PST

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    •  The EU is a hangover from other bodies (0+ / 0-)

      or am I dreaming about being asked to vote in a referendum about membership in the 1970s.....

      and democracy is an important aspect of the EU

      anyone who thinks that the current Eurozone crisis is all a German plot to take over the world....................gawd help us/you

      •  You may or may not be dreaming (0+ / 0-)

        but you are without question incorrect.

        The fact is, the EU as a legal entity was not founded until 1993. By the time it did exist Spain was included in it's initial charter.

        You have made an assertion to the contrary which is false and at that same time assailed my personal credibility with a direct ad hominem attack based on an absolutely false claim.  If you are going to sling accusations and question someone's credibility it is advisable that at the very least you spend 15 second at a Google prompt to make sure your assertions are accurate. It's not terribly difficult to do.

        "crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government" -Thomas Jefferson

        by Phil In Denver on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 07:18:30 PM PST

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    •  Schengen (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      high uintas

      The Schengen Agreement  is nothing to do with countries joining except that it is part of the Acquis they are required to implement.  It deals with the passport-less movement of people with the area and the removal of internal border control

      New member states join through Accession treaties.

      "Who stood against President Obama in 2012?" - The trivia question nobody can answer.

      by Lib Dem FoP on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 04:52:06 PM PST

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      •  Schengen sets up immigration (0+ / 0-)

        and cross border policy, it's a necessary precursor to the actual formal founding of the EU. Without Schengen there is no EU. The point is that Spain was was part of the proto-EU agreements PRIOR to and at the very start of the formal founding of the EU as a formal entity, therefore Spain is indeed a founding member. The rest is of little relevance except that if one is going to make an assertion that the proto-EU entities established during the '50s determines who is a founding member, then other proto-EU entities and agreements also confer that status.

        "crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government" -Thomas Jefferson

        by Phil In Denver on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 07:10:31 PM PST

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        •  Again not so (0+ / 0-)

          The UK and Ireland have opt outs and are not part of the Schengen area whereas Norway and Iceland, both non-EU members are. As it is now part off the Acquis, changes can only be made through the  EU legislative process which the last two cannot formally affect, not by treaty changes.      

          The founding of the Coal and Steel Community in 1951  is usually regarded as the birth of the EU although the Treaty of Rome in 1957 set up the EEC and established the main benefits of freedom of movement of goods, services and people without regard to national boundaries

          BTW, if you are using US practice  as an exemplar, the date should more properly be 9 May 1950 which is when Robert Schuman made his Declaration and is why 9 May is Europe Day. Otherwise you should argue the USA was founded in 1789.

                       

          "Who stood against President Obama in 2012?" - The trivia question nobody can answer.

          by Lib Dem FoP on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 08:55:56 PM PST

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