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View Diary: American Christian Evangelicals celebrating advancement of Uganda's 'kill the gays' bill (139 comments)

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  •  There is also zero assurances (12+ / 0-)

    the parliament won't move to amend and reattach death penalty during the voting process.

    •  Agreed (9+ / 0-)

      there are no assurances.  They could do this.

      I am sure that Uganda will feel severe economic pressure immediately if it passes this bill and tries to implement it.  Uganda gets 1.8 trillion in combined foreign aid and loans from all sources, and nobody is going to sit back and let them start hanging gay men - not the US, not the UK, not the Scandinavians or the Germans or the EC.  Uganda is the 6th largest recipient of foreign aid in Africa and one of the countries most dependent upon donors.  The economy will go into a tailspin if the donor nations shut off the tap.  This of course requires that we pressure the US and others pressure their governments.

      “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

      by ivorybill on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 05:06:11 PM PST

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      •  My mistake... that's $1.8 billion (6+ / 0-)

        Still, a huge percentage of Uganda's GDP - more than 10%.

        “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

        by ivorybill on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 05:09:15 PM PST

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      •  I think you're rather more confident (13+ / 0-)

        than I

        nobody is going to sit back and let them start hanging gay men
        that there will be sunlight on these activities.

        What's a handful of missing gay men here, a handful of missing lesbians there?

        The world yawned when Iraq purged the gays during the US occupation.

        •  Actually (17+ / 0-)

          I raised money and got at least 24 gay men out of Iraq, and the State Department funded then (and funds now) programs to protect gay men in Iraq.  http://www.dailykos.com/...

          There needs to be constant public pressure.  I agree completely with you on that and read/applaud your diaries.  I do know that the State Department has been increasingly serious about responding to human rights violations against LGBT persons, but much of it never makes it in the press by design because so much of the violence is sparked by crazy ideas of "homosexuality" as a Western import.  I will say that it is a lot easier to influence and pressure Uganda than it is to pressure militias in Baghdad.  There was simply not a lot the US could do to prevent some of those killings.  Many of them were conducted by the Mahdi Army.  Militia members had infiltrated Iraqi security forces and the US options were limited.  Currently, there are still severe risks but the recent killings of "emos" in Iraq were not carried out by state security forces - rather, by militias (mostly Sadr).

          I don't want to out myself, but the organization I work with has several State Department grants to advance protections for LGBT persons and we are certainly not the only ones who do.  LGBT protection is becoming integrated into US assistance in the same way violence against women was a decade or more ago.  We contribute information to State Department annual human rights reports and I know for sure that LGBT protection is one of the issues that US diplomats push - hard - behind closed doors.  This is new, even for this Administration.   I grant that the US frequently ignores human rights records when other issues are at stake, such as security cooperation, and I am sure that the US is reluctant to cut off Uganda while Southern Sudan remains unstable and while the war continues in Congo.  But I am quite sure that the Ugandan President and other leaders are getting strong-armed pretty severely right now on this bill, and I frankly can't imagine the US will not cut funding way back if it is passed.

          “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

          by ivorybill on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 05:24:13 PM PST

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        •  One other thing about Iraq and publicity (5+ / 0-)

          There was an organization in the UK run by a guy named Ali Hilli who was very vocal during the 2006-2009 attacks against gay men.  He set up "safe houses", which are never safe and which ended up getting a couple people killed, and then he publicized the attacks as loudly as possible. The Sadr militia was killing gay men specifically because they were accusing them of being "perverts" corrupted by the foreigners, and on a couple of occasions, the Sadrists used Ali Hilli's UK press releases as proof.  With this particular issue, at that particular time, discretion and silence actually was the best policy.  Pressure the government behind the scenes, and get people out, but do it quietly.  My 2 cents... I don't think discretion is the right tactic to take with Uganda, at least in terms of the public response in the US and Europe, but I do think the diplomacy over this issue will take place behind closed doors.

          “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

          by ivorybill on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 05:41:15 PM PST

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        •  I feel the same way. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Scott Wooledge, Donkey Hotey

          I wish I believed that nobody would let it happen, but the world has a long history of letting crap happen.

      •  They seem to enjoy their poverty (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Ian S

            The Ugandan people have made a statement. They'd rather beat up on gay people than eat.

            I say we indulge their preferences.

        "Le ciel est bleu, l'enfer est rouge."

        by Buzzer on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 05:32:09 PM PST

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        •  That's bullshit! (9+ / 0-)

          Do you think that Ugandan elections are fair? Everyone knows the election was rigged. They are governed by a corrupt dictator.

          Do you know what the literacy rate is? Given that it is literally one of the poorest nations in the world, not so high. And the schools are run by the Church there to boot. The same Church which has been funded by American evangelicals to teach nothing but hatred.

          Their media is ridiculously poor.

          Do you really believe that this is a reflection of the views of most Ugandans? That idea is madness. This is a product of a dictator, the LRA, poverty, and a lack of access to resources, information, or goods other than those offered by a few NGO's and an abundance of evangelical, gay-bashing churches who set up shop there to offer an "alternative" to their shitty government.

          They also have had one of the world's highest HIV rates and are struggling with a mysterious disease that WHO has yet to figure out that is fatal.

          Cast the blame where it belongs. The Ugandan people hardly have had a voice to even express themselves.

          "Counsel woven into the fabric of real life is wisdom" - Walter Benjamin

          by mahakali overdrive on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 08:12:58 PM PST

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        •  ugly, bullshit, comment (3+ / 0-)

          You seem to enjoy your fucking ignorance. I say we indulge you and not HR your ass to oblivion. I assume you're a very blissful person.

          America could have chosen to be the worlds doctor, or grocer. We choose instead to be her policeman. pity

          by cacamp on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 09:57:39 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

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