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View Diary: India's Coal Illusion (44 comments)

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  •  The USA won't move away from coal for a century (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Roadbed Guy

    How will we ever get rid of the coal plants?  First we have to shut down all our evil nuclear reactors.  That means more coal plants to replace 20% of our electrical generation.

    We should be moving to 50% nuclear, 50% renewables.  Instead we'll probably end up at 70% coal, 30% renewables.

    •  We're already "moving away" (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bear83, FG, Norm in Chicago

      simply because NG is so cheap.

      I can look up the stats if you want, but coal DID take a sizable hit over the past couple of years (in favor of fracked NG, which is up to twice as bad for the environment than coal even, ugh).

      Note that I did not say (and did not mean to imply) that the use of coal would be eliminated, which clearly it won't be.

      •  Yep, so we get fracking instead of nuclear power (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        condorcet

        Nuclear power doesn't pollute the ground water with toxic chemicals like NG fracking does.  So what did we gain?

        What environmental improvement do we get from shutting down the nukes and fracking every square inch of the country and poisoning every well?  NG still produces C02.  Not as much as coal, but orders of magnitude more than nuclear.

        So the anti-nuke crowd has now given us more coal, more NG fraking, and less C02 free energy.

        We are moving backwards.

        •  Blame it on Fukushima (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          John Crapper

          Well that's what you seem to be doing Norm.

          We've got more coal because resourse that would have better been used for devloping sustainable wind, solar & tidal energy were squandered on susidizing nuclear power.

          Let's follow Germany's lead - Let's phase out both coal & nuclear.

          Do we really have to pick our poison?


          ````
          peace

          "There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people." — Howard Zinn

          by peace voter on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 09:09:13 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yes you absolutely have to choose (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Roadbed Guy

            Germany is going to learn the reality of physics the hard way.  When renewables get to a certain percentage, when it's dark, cold and not windy, the electric grid will collapse.

            Not may collapse, will collapse into constant rolling blackouts.  Germany will be forced to keep coal plants running for baseload.  As C02 keeps going up 3% per year, pretty soon they'll wish they'd kept their nukes.

            And blame what on Fukushima?  That "environmentalists" like you use it as an excuse to keep burning coal?

            Fukushima didn't cause Huricane Sandy.  It didn't cause floods and droughts and heat waves.  C02 does that.  

            Come on, I want to hear you say it.  I want to hear you say that Fukushima was worse than climate change.

            •  Yeah, "Germany phasing out coal" is (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Norm in Chicago

              a really bizarre meme since they're actually increasing its use.

              But I guess if people keep saying it often enough, it becomes true.

              At least that is what has happened here at DailyKos!! (ironically called a "reality based" site to boot!!!!).

        •  Safe nuclear is an illusion. Give it up. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          argomd

          It's an oxymoron.  The economics of it don't work.  People are not going to tolerate its expansion.  Clean coal is also an oxymoron.  Coming to grips with these two facts makes our need to address climate change from the consumption end as well as the renewable energy end more critical.  

          If we really want to straighten out all this crap we really need to think about shit - Holy Shit.

          by John Crapper on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 09:11:11 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  So you deny climate change then? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Roadbed Guy

            Doesn't matter if nuclear power isn't absolutely safe. The question is, is it safer than C02 increasing 3% for year for the entire 21st century?

            Is nuclear power safer than heat waves, droughts and superstorms?   YES!!!

            But it doesn't matter now.  The world had to choose between nuclear power and C02 driven climate change.  Climate change was chosen by the "environmentalists" as the best option.  Have fun with that.

            •  I will move on to more productive discussions (0+ / 0-)

              about real solutions to climate change.

              If we really want to straighten out all this crap we really need to think about shit - Holy Shit.

              by John Crapper on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 09:37:42 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  productive discussions or productive actions? (0+ / 0-)

                Yes I'm sure you will have many "productive" discussions about a 100% wind/solar fantasy land.  It will never happen.  And all the while you're discussing it, the fracking and coal burning continue.

                Don't discuss too long, okay?  Reality isn't going to wait.

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