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View Diary: A Sign of The End Times? Pat Robertson throws the Young Earthers under the bus. (137 comments)

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  •  If you talk to the Lubbavitch Rabbi's (2+ / 0-)
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    Smoh, dufffbeer

    that have really studied the Torah scrolls (as well as Kaballah).  The numeric addition of the letters(each letter = a number) up to the creation of man = 13.5 billion.  So the earth as we know it is that old until the creation of man.  

    Now for the rest of the book of Bereshit (which can mean either "From the beginning" or "In the beginning") is purely allegorical.  

    Each son was born with on or more sisters.  That is also one reason why Cain was jealous of Abel.  Able was born with 2 sisters and Cain with one.  When Cain was sent away, Abel's sisters and Cain's became Seth's wives.  It wasn't until after Jacob that marrying two sisters was deemed bad because of the strife it can cause.

    "Death is the winner in any war." - Nightwish/Imaginareum/Song of myself.

    by doingbusinessas on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 02:50:29 PM PST

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    •  Mind you, the "they all had sisters" concept (0+ / 0-)

      is not universally accepted even among Torah commentators.

      •  The logical question becomes... (0+ / 0-)

        How did they have children?  With whom?

        "Death is the winner in any war." - Nightwish/Imaginareum/Song of myself.

        by doingbusinessas on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 07:49:55 PM PST

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        •  One answer (0+ / 0-)

          is that God made some other humans who don't get directly mentioned.  It makes at least as much sense as there being sisters who weren't mentioned either.

          •  If God had created more humans or had (0+ / 0-)

            split them like he did Adam, the argument would be that it would have been mentioned.  Also after the creation of Adam there is the wording that God rested on the 7th day and all of creation was done.

            "Death is the winner in any war." - Nightwish/Imaginareum/Song of myself.

            by doingbusinessas on Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 07:43:14 AM PST

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            •  Are you familiar with the midrash (1+ / 0-)
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              about the ten things God created bein ha-shmashot (after sunset but before nightfall) on the sixth day?  Most of them refer to things that appear to have been innovated later -- e.g., the rainbow, the manna, the well that traveled with the Israelites in the desert -- and are said to have been created during that twilight time based on the same verse you cite, that all of creation was complete after the sixth day.

              It is a basic tenet of Jewish exegesis that the text of the Torah does not tell us everything that happened; that's (one reason) why we have the oral tradition.  In any case, regardless of where Cain's wife came from -- if she was Eve's daughter or an independent creation -- her origin isn't mentioned.

              •  That's one of the issues with Christian fundies. (0+ / 0-)

                They like to think that God gave us ALL the answers, instead of just accepting that really, there are some things we don't NEED to know about the universe.

                It's a spiritual text, but they try to make it into a history text and a science text.... And apart from the parts of the Writings that were meant to be at least in part historical texts, that's just not there.

                And so something can't just be allegory to them. Jesus gets to talk in parables, but only nicely marked as being just a story.  

                The first chapters of Genesis HAVE to be what happened, instead of a story that explained what God thought ancient herding nomads needed to know about the act of creation in a text they could make personal sense of.  

                Noah's flood HAS to be a world-wide event instead of the civilization-wide event the Black Sea flood would have been, because modern humans get to say 'it was like the world was ending' when localized disasters strike but God and early humans DON'T.

                And then they make believing all this foundational, so that I've had fundies (SBC) insinuate that I must be an atheist solely on the fact I won't put my deity in the 6-Day Creation / Not Allowed To Tell Stories strait-jacket they want to put him in all the time, because apparently I don't believe in God unless I will put him in that restraint. Which I can't anyway, because I am a puny little human, and they just think they have because they are puny little humans too.

                (They also like to use passages clearly describing a fallen world as describing The Way Things Should Be Because God Said So, which is a related but independently awful problem.)

                Prayers and best wishes to those in Japan.

                by Cassandra Waites on Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 08:53:10 AM PST

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                •  My mother used to tell me (1+ / 0-)
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                  Cassandra Waites

                  about people in her Comparative Religion college course who couldn't understand how she could believe in God but not believe in Jesus.

                  A lot of people have trouble with the concept that someone could believe in a deity that matches their own in some respects but not all.  Especially if it looks like you're referring to the same holy book.

                  To paraphrase a great line:  They keep citing that text.  I do not think it means what they think it means.

              •  Actually, no I am not familiar with that (0+ / 0-)

                Midrash.  Since I am a JBC, and Garium, I wasn't given a copy of the Midrashim to read.

                "Death is the winner in any war." - Nightwish/Imaginareum/Song of myself.

                by doingbusinessas on Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 09:36:50 AM PST

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    •  The book of bear shit (0+ / 1-)
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      All these books amount to fairy tales from 2000 years ago.  

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