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View Diary: Is The Student Loan Debt Bubble Bursting? (updated) (334 comments)

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  •  That's the sort of thing I was also (7+ / 0-)

    saying above. Why are people looking to colleges as pre-professionalization? Colleges are good at some things. But when we put them into a position of "training the workers" rather than advanced education and critical thought, we wind up having to run colleges like companies. Better to keep these issues separate.

    I am the world's strongest supporter of a solid education. I believe in absolute access for all who want it. But it galls me that more people can't find work in their field without a degree, because that's societal class discrimination, and a very pro-business mindset that is just not at all pro-people, pro-workers, pro-labor, or pro-education at that.

    I wish your daughter well in her acting career.

    "Counsel woven into the fabric of real life is wisdom" - Walter Benjamin

    by mahakali overdrive on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 03:44:23 PM PST

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    •  I have a neice who (8+ / 0-)

      earned her accounting degree after racking up $40,000 in debt. Because she went to a middle tier school, she didn't get an invite to any of the big firms. So, she ended up working for a fawcett distibutor in new jersey. she made $33k a year.

      Then she took GMAT, got into Temple, moved to Philly,  and enrolled an MBA program programs. She had to take a campus job from crap wages just to make it work around the schedule. Too stressful for any human being to deal with, she switched to one of those 'executive mba' programs and went school on the weekends. She took a day job working for the city of philly. of course, now she's $70,000 in debt and looking at dropping out next semester so she can payoff the credit cards she had to run up in order to move to philly.

      All of this is ridiculous. Ridiculous. I told she would have been better off borrowing $50k from the SBA and opening her own small firm with a side H&R Block franchise.

      We just can't afford to think traditionally about collegiate education anymore. It just isn't for everyone.

      •  I feel like shit when I talk with students who (9+ / 0-)

        come crying into my office, pushed in by their parents, don't even know what they want to do, often seventeen years old, already strapped with 10K in debt from their first semester, they're fucking up in classes, sometimes they're even working a job, and they don't want to be there, they just know they "need a college degree" because they can't get a job otherwise. I don't know how I can tell them that they probably won't have a job even with the freaking degree.

        But I educate people and enjoy that. The rest, not so much.

        Education is awesome. But it should be a lot more voluntary, and it doesn't feel like it is right now. And that pisses me off like nothing else. What's wrong with blue collar labor? Um, nothing. Why do you need an MBA to manage a freaking Target? Ugh. I was fifteen-years old when I had my first retail management job. Employers need to get with the program about what a diploma is. And for-profits need to back off selling these "dreams" to both employers and students. And the loan predators need to stop drooling at the fresh red meat.

        We've got some fixing to do, sigh...

        "Counsel woven into the fabric of real life is wisdom" - Walter Benjamin

        by mahakali overdrive on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 04:05:40 PM PST

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        •  *sigh* that was me (3+ / 0-)

          except I was eighteen, at a music conservatory that had no advising services that I can remember. Certainly there were no mental health services. I shudder when I remember how lonely I felt, and how easy it was to take out thousands of dollars per semester in loans. I wish I'd known better- or known anything other than how nice it felt to have "stuff" and go to a school in a gigantic city. How foolish I was.

        •  For years I worked in a job that didn't require (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mahakali overdrive

          a college degree, but I'm still really glad that I had the chance to get a liberal arts education. I'm a better thinker for having done that.

          •  It's just really valuable (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            I can't really express enough how strong I feel a Liberal Arts background can be for most people. It's not always going to teach specific skills for work, but it will teach habits of the mind that definitely are amazing.

            I've been a blue collar worker in my time as well. I've done all manner of things. But am I happier for my education? For me, absolutely. For others, I think vocation is fine too. I'm agnostic about what people choose as long as they are happy and, most importantly, able to choose freely due to no financial impediments, no wealth divides, and no labor or job shortages.

            "Counsel woven into the fabric of real life is wisdom" - Walter Benjamin

            by mahakali overdrive on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 09:37:55 PM PST

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    •  My father asked the same thing in the 1980s: (6+ / 0-)

      Why are we requiring EVERYONE to go to college? Don't we still need plumbers, mechanics, construction workers? Are we not paying attention?

      "Compassion is not weakness, and concern for the unfortunate is not socialism." - Hubert Humphrey

      by Killer of Sacred Cows on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 04:12:13 PM PST

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      •  We're approaching market glut (5+ / 0-)

        in a lot of those professions, too -- and all too many of our construction contractors prefer inexpensive undocumented labor.

      •  One of my sons is very bright, could be in (2+ / 0-)

        medical school right now, but both my ex and I are still paying off our student loans and can't afford to send him to school.  The ex's idea is for him to use student loans -facepalm-.

        He tried going to state school to fullfill some prerequisits, had some grants, I gave him a couple grand.  But when the ex f##ked up his ability to get any more aid he dropped out.  Now he has to make onerous payments on the one loan he did take, making it almost impossible to live.  The ex screams at me for not encouraging him to keep tring to go to school.  To me, he's better off in the working world.  He's already shown a lot of ability in the job he took, rapidly being promoted and given raises.  He works for a canvassing company that helped GOTV in CO - best performing group in the state!  Now they've sent him for training to do work on the "fiscal cliff", and then he's to start lobbying congress-critters.

        He probably would have made a great doctor too ...

        I lie to myself because I'm the only one who continues to believe me. - Vermin

        by 84thProblem on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 07:29:23 PM PST

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