#### Comment Preferences

• ##### Maybe Arctic melt?(3+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Hopeful Skeptic, NYFM, tonyahky

Possibly went preferentially into the Atlantic and raised the levels?

• ##### Most of the rise(10+ / 0-)

is due to the anomaly FOoW cites, but 4 trillion tons of melted polar caps might have contributed.

More than 4tn tonnes of ice from Greenland and Antarctica has melted in the past 20 years and flowed into the oceans, pushing up sea levels, according to a study that provides the best measure to date of the effect climate change is having on the earth's biggest ice sheets. (snip)
The study shows the melting of the two giant ice sheets has caused the seas to rise by more than 11mm in 20 years. It also found Greenland is losing ice mass at five times the rate of the early 1990s.

"There's a crack in everything; that's how the light gets in". Leonard Cohen

[ Parent ]

• ##### During that summer Arctic storm(4+ / 0-)

most of the ice breakup went into the Atlantic.  I'm sort of hoping it's that instead of increased melt from Greenland, because it would be a one-shot.

[ Parent ]

• ##### Well, lets do the math!(9+ / 0-)

Assuming all that melt came from non-sea ice and although there are some differences in the density of salt/fresh water and from temperatures they're fairly small at the temperatures we're talking about. The ocean's surface is approximately 361,000,000 km2.

4T tonnes of water spread out over the whole ocean amounts to about 11,100 tonnes/km2. But if you reduce it down further you'll see just what that means in human scale terms.

11,100 tonnes = 11,100,000 kg
1km2 = 1,000,000 m2

So we're now dealing with 0.0111 tonnes/m2 or 11.1 kg/m2. The density of water is 1g/cm3 which lets us calculate how deep that 11.1 kg of water would be spread out over a square meter. The answer -- 1.11 cm (11.1 mm) of water or a little more than a third of the entire 32mm change. So, yeah, that's definitely part of the problem.

To me progress is not so much a goal as it is a process and I believe it will not follow a straight course. Remember, the drops of water that form the river may not take the shortest path but they will still reach the ocean.

[ Parent ]

• ##### Sea Ice melt...(11+ / 0-)

Doesn't cause an increase in water levels.  What causes the increase is the melting of terrestrial ice sheets such as Greenland and Antarctica.

'Goodwill' between the GOP and the President is as abundant as unicorn farts - Me'

[ Parent ]

• ##### Long term you're absolutely right(4+ / 0-)

I was inquiring about an actual large-scale physical transfer of water from the Arctic to the Atlantic, caused by that super-storm.

[ Parent ]

• ##### Ah...(3+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
NYFM, tonyahky, LilithGardener

I get it.  And not having a 'solid' service means that water flows easily and may affect tides.

'Goodwill' between the GOP and the President is as abundant as unicorn farts - Me'

[ Parent ]

• ##### Even long term it does cause an increase(4+ / 0-)

because of the difference in density of fresh versus salt water.  I don't know if it's a significant difference, but it's definitely there.

The revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

[ Parent ]

• ##### I have heard that an even bigger effect is(6+ / 0-)

the increase in volume as the water warms.

• ##### Yes, that's called the steric effect.(0+ / 0-)

look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

[ Parent ]

• ##### Greenland had a big melt year but(6+ / 0-)

the cold fresh water is a different water mass than the warm water off the east coast. Melting Arctic sea ice has no effect that I know of on east coast  sea levels other than general planetary warming.

look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

[ Parent ]

• ##### That summer arctic storm(3+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
tonyahky, LilithGardener, irmaly

pushed most of the ice breakup into the Atlantic.  I was just thinking that melt might of contributed to the rise.

[ Parent ]

• ##### The seas north of Iceland have been stormy(4+ / 0-)

There were many storms, not just that big one. The overall pattern of many more than average storms is related to the NAO. Research has shown that the JFM NAO is critical to sea level anomalies, but the summer NAO surely has an effect, too.

The loss of Arctic sea ice affects the atmospheric circulation, so that might be a link.

look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

[ Parent ]

• ##### How does that effect the evaporation and humidity?(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Calamity Jean

Ice is a good insulator.  An ice covered arctic is like a head with a stocking cap.  Water heat energy can't couple to the atmosphere.

But a low ice arctic is like football player in winter taking of his helmet.  The heat steams off the head visibly.

Storms and wind stir up waves and drive big swells and white caps.  Waves break onshore, and a ton of water is thrown up into the air, vastly increasing surface area.

That evaporation should shed heat and raise humidity.  So where does that extra water vapor fall?  And as snow or rain?

• ##### Absolute humidity increases over open water(3+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
NoMoreLies, Calamity Jean, elwior

There's a significant water vapor feedback to Arctic warming as the ice melts.

look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

[ Parent ]

• ##### How does the replenishment rate look?(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
PeterHug, elwior

Warmer waters should mean more evaporation in winter.  That moisture gets pushed up the Greenland mountains, and should fall as massive snowfall.  Ice should melt around the edges while the glacier grows in the middle and flows donwhill.  That's how glacier valleys form in the first place.

So is greenland snowfall incresing or decreasing?  I couldn't find good data on it.

• ##### Greenland's is getting darker in summer(4+ / 0-)

The darkening shows that melt + evaporation + sublimation  is greater than the amount of snowfall over recent years.

look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

[ Parent ]

• ##### Archimedes' Principle(0+ / 0-)

...dictates that.  The sea water in iceberg form was always displacing an equal volume of the melted form of it, no?

Hope I got that right!

• ##### Melting sea ice doesn't raise the sea level.(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Norm in Chicago

(But melting glaciers on land do.)

The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

[ Parent ]

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