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View Diary: White House Fights Back: Boehner is "Deeply Irresponsible." (177 comments)

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  •  I think the thugs are seeing if they can muddy (26+ / 0-)

    the waters with blame. But I think I see enough breaks in the ranks to be somewhat hopeful. They have more to lose than Dems.

    "Too often we excuse those who are willing to build their own lives on the shattered dreams of others" Robert F. Kennedy

    by realwischeese on Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 12:36:55 PM PST

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    •  Why because they are the majority? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rubyr, 4Freedom

      "let's talk about that"

      by VClib on Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 12:38:47 PM PST

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      •  they are in the House of course (6+ / 0-)

        they have more to lose in the 'cliff' than Dem base, although vulnerable poor really have the most to risk.

        "Too often we excuse those who are willing to build their own lives on the shattered dreams of others" Robert F. Kennedy

        by realwischeese on Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 02:11:53 PM PST

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        •  Do they? (26+ / 0-)

          I always figured the Republicans win these fights because they don't give a shit about the consequences to average Americans.  Democrats do and so in the end, they do anything to make a deal.  Its kind of like that scene in Superman II where the 3 criminals from Krypton realized Superman's biggest weakness was that he cared for these Earth creatures.

          Forward thinking!

          by TheC on Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 02:18:07 PM PST

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          •  You win by calling them out (20+ / 0-)

            You let the public understand the game and who is playing it.

            You can say that this will cause a world of hurt to people at the bottom and since we are "Christian" nation, according to the conservatives, and its almost Christmas, it would give Democrats an opportunity to paint these Scrooges for who they are.

            We need to do this more because it really is about responsibility and valuing the common good. Its so blatantly obvious it seems unreal at times.

            •  You win by *voting* them out (31+ / 0-)

              Or by making it clear that you will put forward the will and the resources needed to do that.

              We need, in the very near term, to start doing this:

              1. Identifying any GOP rep that where the partisan margin was manageable, and recruit serious people to run, now.
              2. Make sure that we facilitate people to run, anywhere, even where the pros think the chances to win are small, and do so as soon as possible.
              3. Making the misbehavior of the Republican leadership known at a local level (using forums like this, and creating new, more locally focused forums as well).

              We can't be sure we will have a wave election in 2014, but we should do as much as possible to create the feeling of one well before.  The wins in 2006 were not a fluke; folks like us started preparing the ground in 2005, as we beat Bush and the GOP on Social Security, and as the the extremity and incompetence of the the GOP became increasingly clear (Schiavo, Katrina, etc.)

              Lots of people in the GOP are already nervous.  We need to make them frighten, and we need to make them panic.  If we do so, we will be set up to take them out two years from now.

              [I]t is totally not true that Mitt Romney strapped Paul Ryan to the top of a car and drove him to Canada. Stop spreading rumors! -- Gail Collins

              by mbayrob on Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 03:23:54 PM PST

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              •  The joys of corruption make that harder (6+ / 0-)

                Gerrymandering should be unconstitutional, but we won't see any help from the Supreme Court since the gerrymandering kept the minority party in control of the House and Roberts has not persuaded me that he is anything but a Republican hack.

                The GOP is the party of mammon. They mock what Jesus taught.

                by freelunch on Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 04:11:33 PM PST

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                •  Gerrymandering is as old as the republic (21+ / 0-)

                  The thing about gerrymandering, though, is that only works by spreading Democrats just thinly enough.  If you "waste" your Democrats by not putting enough of them in a district, you reduce the number of total seats that can go red.

                  So the trick is finding districts that aren't quite as "safe" as they should be.

                  Having watched one of the worse Republicans in California -- Richard "Dick" Pombo -- go down in 2006, I've seen up close and personal how it can be done.  Recruit somebody with an inspiring story who cares and will work like hell, like Jerry McNerney, pull people to help from around the district where either there's no hope at all, or no risk, and keep at it.

                  And run EVERYWHERE.  Even in badly drawn districts,  sometimes the incumbent is not only a wing nut, but an incompetent, verbally incontinent wing nut.  And you get lucky.

                  Gerrymandering is just an excuse.  Find yourself a district close to you, and get to work.

                  [I]t is totally not true that Mitt Romney strapped Paul Ryan to the top of a car and drove him to Canada. Stop spreading rumors! -- Gail Collins

                  by mbayrob on Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 04:24:27 PM PST

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                  •  And then raise money for them! (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Citizenpower, Creosote

                    What totally makes me crazy is when the Democratic Party chooses a hack because the hack can raise the most funds.  It absolutely makes me furious.

                    Newt 2012. Sociopath, adulterer, hypocrite, Republican.

                    by tikkun on Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 08:17:51 PM PST

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                    •  Money does matter (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Citizenpower, Sue B

                      I'm not saying we should be nominating hacks.  But we do need to worry that we worry about how we'll fund our candidates.

                      A lot of good people you'd want to see in Congress aren't rich, and don't have a lot of rich friends.  So we need to worry that good people can raise enough money to run.

                      The DCCC often looks for the money first.  We need to find the people, but we need to make sure they get the support they need from us.

                      [I]t is totally not true that Mitt Romney strapped Paul Ryan to the top of a car and drove him to Canada. Stop spreading rumors! -- Gail Collins

                      by mbayrob on Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 09:15:15 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  An issue with a lot of the newer (0+ / 0-)

                    wingnut politicians is that they are politically incompetent. They say stupid things. They don't know how to work with people very different from themselves, to get things done, so they just look like sputtering, useless fools. Not that we should feel smug. From time to time, we have problems on our side, too, with politicians and would-bes who voice the highest of ideals and yet they have no political chops. They can't work with anybody else. They insult would-be sympathizers with needless hyperbole. In the end, they don't go anywhere, either.

                    It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

                    by karmsy on Fri Nov 30, 2012 at 08:55:14 AM PST

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              •  In the meantime -- contact them! (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                artmartin, regis

                This morning, I sent emails to my GOP Congressman (Jim Gerlach) and GOP Senator (Pat Toomey):

                "It is long past time for you and your Republican colleagues to stop holding the budget hostage to your demands to protect unjustifiable tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, which should have expired in 2010.  So far, I have not seen ANY attempt from House Republicans to negotiate in good faith.  It is simply untenable for Speaker Boehner to take the same position that Mitt Romney did during the campaign, a position that was placed before the American people and defeated.

                "I am calling on you to be the voice of reason within the GOP House Caucus.  Raise the debt limit without drama that may lead to another bond rating cut -- no one needs higher interest rates, let alone the Federal Government.  It makes no sense to take actions that will lead to higher borrowing costs when your objective is to reduce the budget deficit.  Agree to raise taxes on the top 2%.  Grover Norquist is not a constituent of yours, and you owe him no fealty.  It would be a shame, and in my opinion a breach of your oath of office, to elevate his importance over that of the people who sent you to Congress to do the People's business.

                "In short, I am asking you to 1) tell the House Republican leadership to stop walking away from budget negiotiations; 2) Vote to raise the debt ceiling without holding the rest of the country hostage to the wealthiest Americans; and 3) vote to allow the tax cuts for the wealthiest 2% of Americans expire.



                (sorry for the quotation marks -- my connection at work won't let me do any formatting)

                I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use -- Galileo Galilei

                by ccyd on Fri Nov 30, 2012 at 06:40:52 AM PST

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            •  Citizenpower - The impact isn't until after (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              lina, DJDan, Judge Moonbox

              Christmas. The Dems will do as you suggest, but the next election is in two years and it's not going to have much impact. Conservative Christians don't believe that help from government counts toward being a good "Christian". In their collective view what you do in your personal life, with your own money and time, is all that counts. Social services funded by taxes, which are not voluntary, have nothing to do with Christian values, in their view. While we don't agree, there is little or no leverage available to us on this point.

              "let's talk about that"

              by VClib on Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 04:02:25 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  But policies that harm Christians may register (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Judge Moonbox, fumie, deepeco

                I said a couple of weeks ago with regard to Boehner's threats, I wished Obama would say, "We don't negotiate with terrorists."  Calling him "irresponsible" comes close.  But I'm still hoping for the "terrorist" label.  Even Republicans  understand "irresponsible" and "terrorist".

                Even Democrats can be asses. Look at Rahm Emanuel.

                by Helpless on Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 04:50:42 PM PST

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          •  This is how you treat bullies,by the way (22+ / 0-)

            You have to face up to them. Don't expect them to grow a conscience unless they have experienced a little pain.

          •  The big secret about the "fiscal cliff" is (0+ / 0-)

            it's not that big a deal. If the deadline expires and the tax cuts expire and the spending cuts kick in, most Americans won't be affected. The people who are most affected will be the people who need extended unemployment benefits...a small percentage of the total unemployed.
               The pressure for Congress to pass unemployment extensions will be overwhelming. And it won't be long before the MIC starts to whinge about the defense cuts.
               But, overall, the tax increases just take us back to the tax rates of the 90s and the spending cuts are relatively minuscule.
              You're looking at maybe $200 billion less money than would otherwise be spent. This is not a withdrawal of money from the economy. It is not spending money that would otherwise be spent.

            •  As a school teacher living paycheck to paycheck (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              createpeace, sethtriggs

              That increase in the payroll tax and higher tax rate hitting all at once is a big deal.  It might mean that some bills won't get paid.  While I realize that we would be returning to rates we paid in the past, some of us have been hit by frozen or reduced wages and increases in pension and health care contributions at the same time that those taxes/payroll taxes were lowered.  The payroll tax holiday helped to balance out the increased pension contribution I have to pay.  I don't object to higher taxes.  I understand the benefits to society at large, but it would help to not get hit with it all at once after 4 years of salary freezes/reductions.

              “It is the job of the artist to think outside the boundaries of permissible thought and dare say things that no one else will say."—Howard Zinn

              by musiclady on Fri Nov 30, 2012 at 07:35:54 AM PST

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        •  realwischeese - I don't agree at all (0+ / 0-)

          I think the Dem base has much more to lose than the Republicans. While the over $250,000 crowd may be very disappointed the combination of the end of the payroll tax cut, supplemental unemployment payments, and higher income tax withholding will have a much bigger impact our voters.

          "let's talk about that"

          by VClib on Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 03:57:26 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  If the austerity stayed in place (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            vcmvo2, tikkun, chuck utzman, sethtriggs

            I don't expect this absurd austerity to stay in place. I expect the GOP to start taking negotiations seriously after tax increases and big spending cuts are set into motion and not before.

            Remember that some want to wait until 2013 so they can claim they did not violate Norquist's Sacred Pledge to ignore their constitutional responsibility.

            The GOP is the party of mammon. They mock what Jesus taught.

            by freelunch on Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 04:13:44 PM PST

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    •  Ask Boehner why onlly Dems must be serious. (4+ / 0-)

      The Speaker of the House was on TV tonight, arguing that Democrats weren't serious because they weren't accepting the spending cuts that the Republicans demand.

      Evidently, it's all right for the GOP to be perfectly frivolous in this debate. They've done even less to admit that the Bush tax cuts were a HUGE part of the deficit, that they were totally unnecessary, and that Supply Side economists had to resort to absurdity to defend them.

      So measuring each side's "seriousness," the Democrats would still come out way ahead. Measuing by the degree each side actually contributed to the deficit, the Democratic advantage would become insurmountable.

      Didn't Boehner get the memo that the media is liberally biased? I can't see how he could have made such an accusation if the actually believed the media was against the GOP>

      The furor over Friday's [10.5] job report revealed a political movement that is rooting for American failure, so obsessed with taking down Obama that good news drives its members into a blind rage. -Paul Krugman

      by Judge Moonbox on Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 07:04:26 PM PST

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