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View Diary: Dear Washington douchebags, (284 comments)

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  •  Agreed. Fast deal now isn't in long-term interest (17+ / 0-)

    Seems like the smart strategy is to wait for the following:
    1) Bush tax cuts expire. Get that cretin's name disassociated from the tax cuts too.
    2) Wait for the slightly more democratic house and filibuster reform to come in.
    3) Offer moderate middle and lower class tax cuts as a stand alone bill, wait for the Republican caucus to fracture. Could tie them to lowering the sequestration, but it might be better to give the obstruction caucus fewer excuses to latch on to.
    4) If the house blocks the middle class tax cuts, tar them with it all the way through the next election, with Obama on the campaign trail hitting them over the head with it repeatedly, taking a populist stance.
    5) If they don't get rid of the debt limit now, deal with that issue in isolation, not tied to any bs concessions.

    The thing to remember is that Obama is not up for re-election in two years, but the Republicans are. It won't help if his approvals are in the gutter, but most polling suggests republicans will get blamed for failures this time. So the real task for Obama is to excite his supporters and get them to the polls in 2014. Our base is bigger than theirs now, and will continue to get bigger as long as the democrats realize it.

    •  House Pubbies won't block a tax cut (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      grrr, avsp, TomP, OhioNatureMom

      Democrats should load up the middle-class tax cut bill with things they want, including a few they're willing to bargain away (? hikes in the estate tax and a millionaire's surtax).  It's the one bill Republicans won't block if the Bush tax cuts go away, so best to use it to save unemployment benefits and aid to states, the debt ceiling hike, etc.

      Citizens United defeated by citizens, united.

      by Dallasdoc on Fri Nov 30, 2012 at 08:11:48 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  They won't need to "block" it. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        erush1345, OhioNatureMom, Pluto, VClib

        It will never come up for a vote in the House so no House Republican will every have to vote against it.  (Remember, a similar bill has already passed the Senate.)

        In its place, the House WILL pass an extension of the tax cuts for everyone -- Speaker Boehner will bring that to the floor, and all the Republicans will vote for it.  And that will face a similar fate in the Senate, where Sen. Reid will make sure that never comes up for a vote so Senate Democrats don't have to vote against it.  

        Which means the status quo.  Taxes go up for everyone.  

      •  They need to do a tax cuts for 98% (8+ / 0-)

        with a debt ceiling raise equal to the total amount of the cut over 10 years.  We need to end that extortion point.

        I'm glad Barack Obama is our President.

        by TomP on Fri Nov 30, 2012 at 09:45:43 AM PST

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        •  it's restoring the Clinton rates (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TomP, avsp, OhioNatureMom

          which worked quite well, including for the lower and lower-middle. We don't need those tax cuts. We'd like the lower ones for the stimulus effect, but "like" is not "need".

          And the debt ceiling can be argued away. Congress already authorized the debt by approving the spending and revenue which caused it. The debt ceiling is an over-constraint to the problem by people who don't understand arithmetic.

          •  I understand. (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            avsp, OhioNatureMom, Loge, ferg

            It would be interesting (and ironic) of the Rs caused the Clinton rates and refused to change them.  

            I'm glad Barack Obama is our President.

            by TomP on Fri Nov 30, 2012 at 10:08:31 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Actually about 10% higher than Clinton rates (4+ / 0-)

            As there is a  new 3.8% tax on investment income that starts on jan 1, from the Affordable Care Act.

            The most important way to protect the environment is not to have more than one child.

            by nextstep on Fri Nov 30, 2012 at 11:31:31 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  the short-term economy (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            nextstep

            is still too shaky to take that money out of the hands of consumers.  What you're proposing is anti-Keynesian.  Not as good as direct stimulus spending (which is in the Obama proposal - a poison pill?) but consumers are more likely to spend if they have an extra $2000 in payroll tax cuts.  The Clinton rate argument also fails to take into account the effect of not enacting the AMT patch.

            As for the debt ceiling argument well, you're wrong (in law, a specific statute would take precedence) and it's irrelevant (there have to be buyers for the debt, and with uncertainty about legal validity, interest rates would go way, way up).  

            Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

            by Loge on Sat Dec 01, 2012 at 05:52:47 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  But all of that is fixable (0+ / 0-)

              During the next year.

              Remember, none of this will have any real effect on anybody, except for changes in withholding, until the END of next year, when people start looking at doing their 2013 taxes.

              And if the withholding tables get changed, you can always adjust them later, and even send out a rebate check.

              Or just let people get a higher tax return in 2014. Which might not be a bad thing, especially if people link that to the dems fighting to lower their taxes.

      •  Dallasdoc - in the House the Dems have no (0+ / 0-)

        power to draft a bill or have the House vote on it. All of that is controlled by the majority.

        "let's talk about that"

        by VClib on Fri Nov 30, 2012 at 05:27:45 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Doesn't matter (0+ / 0-)

          The Senate can take any bill from the House, strip out all the language and put in a wholesale substitution.  The bill originates in the House, but the contents don't have to.  That's a longtime dodge that's been used forever, as far as I know.

          Citizens United defeated by citizens, united.

          by Dallasdoc on Fri Nov 30, 2012 at 06:39:57 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Dallasdoc - the Senate has already passed (0+ / 0-)

            a bill with the 98% tax cut language and that is sitting at the Speakers desk where it will gather dust. The Senate could also take another bill, and put some goodies in it and make it even better from our perspective, pass it and send it to the House. It too would sit at the Speaker's desk until he wants to do something with it or a petition with 218 votes shows up on his desk.  

            "let's talk about that"

            by VClib on Fri Nov 30, 2012 at 06:47:02 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Of course (0+ / 0-)

              And that bill will likely die with this Congress.  Democrats should keep doing this with every bill Republicans pass from the House, putting more pressure on the Republicans as time goes by.

              Republicans have no strategy other than obstruction, so the secret to getting anything done will be coupling relatively irresistible bills like the 98% tax cut with things Democrats want, like the unemployment extension or the debt ceiling extension.  Ratcheting up pressure by keeping the public calling and protesting; continuing to reframe the discussion in ways helpful to Democrats is how the siege will be won.

              Citizens United defeated by citizens, united.

              by Dallasdoc on Fri Nov 30, 2012 at 06:52:17 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Dallasdoc - that's what happened in the 112th (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                CrissieP

                There are a few hundred bills passed by the House that the Senate Majority Leader has not allowed to be debated and a vote taken.  Same is true for bills passed in the Senate that never made it on the agenda in the House. That's politics and why having a majority in these congressional bodies is so important.

                "let's talk about that"

                by VClib on Fri Nov 30, 2012 at 07:00:32 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

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