Skip to main content

View Diary: The American System (205 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  I'd go even further (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    A Citizen, Ian Reifowitz

    and argue that in many ways the Federalists were the liberal progressives and the Jeffersonians were the conservative reactionaries. Most Federalists were anti-slavery economic and fiscal progressives who wanted government to invest in the country's economy, while most Jeffersonians were states rights absolutists who either owned slaves and effectively if not openly believed in slavery, or didn't have a big problem with it, and wanted the government out of the economy. Of course the roles were reversed on other issues like civil liberties and militarism, but on the whole I think this holds true, and has every since, with the only big change being that the parties have taken over each others' historical roles and views, effectively being little more than a name change.

    "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

    by kovie on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 07:38:35 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Apparently odd couple of business and abolitionist (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ian Reifowitz

      Wasn't as odd at the time. States' rights was anathema to both.

      The GOP is the party of mammon. They mock what Jesus taught.

      by freelunch on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 10:33:41 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  One problem with the Federalists (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kovie

      Was their desire to limit political power to those with a decent amount of property. That's what made the Jeffersonians more liberal, at least on that issue.

      •  Most of the framers wanted it that way (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Ian Reifowitz

        Every Jefferson distrusted democracy. And we have to remember that the push for universal male suffrage was only partly driven by democratic impulses. It was also driven by a desire to register more voters, who tended to vote Democratic the less rich they were, especially in the more urban north, where party bosses like George Clinton dominated politics. But I agree that the Federalists and Whigs were elitists. Can't forget the Whiskey Rebellion, of course.

        "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

        by kovie on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 06:29:30 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes. Good points. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kovie

          By 1800, universal male suffrage was a major divide between the parties.

          •  Btw I meant even Jefferson, not every Jefferson (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Ian Reifowitz

            And while in the end I obviously believe in universal suffrage, the framers had a point about its dangers, that it would lead to cynical demagogues manipulating unsophisticated voters into electing them. I think their point has been proven beyond any doubt. All the more reason to better educate and enlighten voters, something that Dems have frankly sucked at for years. A smart and knowledgable voter is more often a Dem voter than not. Hopefully, they're getting better at it.

            "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

            by kovie on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 08:29:32 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site