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View Diary: Hey America! Can you please stop killing our (usually) innocent Black male children now? (423 comments)

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  •  I'm still in a state of rage (58+ / 0-)

    about comments indicating it was Jordan's fault for being in a car with loud music, or Trayvon's fault for wearing a hoodie, or Oscar's fault for being in the BART station ...or ...or...or...
    so sick of the bullshit.

    If you're in a coalition and you're comfortable, you know it's not a broad enough coalition" Bernice Johnson Reagon

    by Denise Oliver Velez on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 05:28:19 PM PST

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    •  Or Jeremiah Chass, who took (20+ / 0-)

      some mushrooms and whose parents tried calling for psych help and got the police instead against their wishes...

      "Counsel woven into the fabric of real life is wisdom" - Walter Benjamin

      by mahakali overdrive on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 05:41:40 PM PST

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    •  the only sense I can make of defensive reactions (13+ / 0-)

      like the ones you mention, Denise, is that by 'blaming the victim' a person's whole world view is protected.  It seems to me that their whole house of cards would fall down if they admitted that white racism was creating these horrific crimes.

      You know what I have been doing out of anger for a while now?  Whenever anyone asks me for whatever reason any question relating to my race or skin color, I respond defiantly:

      "I am a person of color.  I refuse to be categorized as 'white' because I personally have never seen a 'white person.'   Rather I am a somewhat taupey beige person on a spectrum of color from dark brown to very light beige."

      My own personal protest.  Thank you for your diary and your challenge to us 'beige folks.'

      It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything. ~~Joseph Stalin

      by SeaTurtle on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 05:47:52 PM PST

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    •  You and Me Both (25+ / 0-)

      And we have our first ignorant comment here now (what about the black people who kill other black people) so I'm just going to go have a smoke and cool off. And reflect about how it is so damned ingrained in so many white folks and they are too stupid to even know it let alone understand how fundamentally sick that reaction to a diary like this is!

      •  I think your reaction was brilliant, shanikka, (15+ / 0-)

        their comment is just hanging out there stark naked for others to see, demonstrating your very point about racism.

        You could give that poster all the explanations in the world, but they don't have the mind and heart to understand any of them.  And yes, that reaction is fundamentally sick.

        It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything. ~~Joseph Stalin

        by SeaTurtle on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 06:08:32 PM PST

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        •  It's hidden now. Might be better, yes, (8+ / 0-)

          to have it hanging out there, but hide-rating is also a way of expressing strong disapproval of the comment.

          I'm seeking to organize DKos members in SE Michigan--roughly, from the Ohio line at Lake Erie NE to Port Huron, W to Flint and back S from there. If you'd like to join our new group, Motor City Kossacks (working title), please Kosmail me.

          by peregrine kate on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 06:29:44 PM PST

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          •  I could un-hide-rate it if people think (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            shanikka, peregrine kate, GenXangster

            visibility is better.  But I'm beyond that.  I'm really so tired of the TeaBaggers, and teh batshit crazy.  My inclination with knuckledraggers and bedwetters is to alternatively belittle and ignore them at all times, and squelch them when possible, as backward elements that have nothing of value to contribute.  

            Shirley Chisholm was right. Our Republic is in deep trouble.

            by Big River Bandido on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 06:35:29 PM PST

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            •  This Guy (10+ / 0-)

              Isn't a teabagger, but a Kossack in good standing who has been here a long time.

              Which should tell folks something.

              And we need to acknowledge that. I do wish his comment wasn't hidden, but do understand why folks felt they needed to HR it.

              •  Sorry for jumping the gun (5+ / 0-)

                but it looks like plenty others have piled on at the same time.  Probably for the better, only TUs will be able to view the comment.  

                But yes, it's instructive that the poster is a Kossack in good standing...it's my impression that as Democrats and Kossacks co-opt former Republicans and conservatives who can no longer stand teh crazy, they are the ones who are co-opting us.

                Shirley Chisholm was right. Our Republic is in deep trouble.

                by Big River Bandido on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 07:09:45 PM PST

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                •  Wow! I write this knowing it will probably be HR'd (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Be Skeptical

                  I have never heard such convoluted rationale for HR'ing someone who presents a different view, all the while accepting the apology of a White Person who speaks for all white racists.
                  I am more concerned that you allow such a person to comment, but won't allow the comment of someone who does not wish to be counted as a Racist.
                  Who do I fear the most, someone who speaks for all white racists or someone who wishes not to be branded racist and refuses to allow the head of white racists speak for them?
                  I am assuming this person is high up in the ranks of White Racists or they couldn't apologize for all of them.

                  "If you tell the truth, you won't have to remember anything", Mark Twain

                  by Cruzankenny on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 06:42:33 AM PST

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                  •  I read the offending the comment. (4+ / 0-)

                    That poster called another poster a racist.  While the poster's original comments could have been phrased better, the point cannot be missed that a great number of black youth who have been shot and killed under questionable circumstances has been at the hand of law enforcement officers who just so happened to be white -- thus the point of this diary.  

                    What I find interesting is anyone taking offense over use of the term racist if they are not one themselves.

                    •  I have no issue with the fact there are racists (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Be Skeptical

                      everywhere and did not read the comment where someone  called someone else a racist. I can imagine that would be a bitter pill to swallow, but they don't go away because they are HR'd and I had hoped this forum at least would see the positive side of engaging in a dialog with someone they consider racist, unless they were trolling..
                      What upset me the most was the woman who apologized for all the "white racists" in the world. You cannot apologize for someone else and you certainly cannot apologize for racists unless you are one yourself or had something to do with molding someone into racism. That kind of knee-jerk reaction is right along with "some of my best friends are" and chills my soul.
                      I don't want some liberal white throwing their self on the sword of racism, I want them to confront it and stop it whenever it happens, even at Grampa's house during Thanksgiving.

                      "If you tell the truth, you won't have to remember anything", Mark Twain

                      by Cruzankenny on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 10:55:03 AM PST

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          •  PK, it is better hidden if the community (5+ / 0-)

            decides it deserves to be hidden.

            Because the other side of this is that the back and forth on this ridiculous comment DERAILS a very, very important topic.  Hidden is best, imo, so that the real dialogue can continue, imo.

            It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything. ~~Joseph Stalin

            by SeaTurtle on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 06:56:12 PM PST

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    •  Thank you both, shanikka and DOV for your diaries (8+ / 0-)

      today.

      I do not understand why people cannot see how our country and world can get better if they would just quit being willfully ignorant and quit trying to stop progress.

      I am an old white hippie and it is so obvious where we are going and must go to be a just world that I do not understand why they are trying to prevent it. It will happen, they are only slowing progress; they cannot prevent it.  

      But, meanwhile, young men must be imprisoned and/or die?

      I love my President Obama. I have been saying for months that the obvious fact of so many of these young men being in prison is wrong on the face of it is one of the most important things President Obama should address if we are to be a just society.

      My heart is hurting for these boys.

      Is their illogical racism so important to them that kids have to die?  They must be monsters.

    •  I hate those too (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      shanikka, lirtydies, kj in missouri

      Sometimes i think the person does not think it is the victims fault overall. Perhaps sometimes they do but i suspect that some don't get how they share comes across Just as if they did make it the victim's fault...as if he deserved it.

      Some of them may not get that they are empathisizig with the murderer, crawling into his shoes, rather than a dead kid just because they ...in their possible middle aged (white?) dislike for loud music being forced on them in public as well as disrespectful young people...they identify more with the circumstances and feelings of the killer more than the victim. They think of themselves being annoyed and confrontational in the same situation as the killer, maybe they have even felt that way before in a similar situation. It takes more effort for them to empathise with the victim, and, chiliingly, they don't seem to bother.

      AND THEN we see how blind these posters are being. In the least, also, lazy in empathy.  So innapropriate to vent about small issue of teens and (yes, dispectful) loud music in the SETTING OF ONE BEING MURDERED>

       It is outrageous to empathise with the killer in anyway when we are talking about the fact that SOME KID IS DEAD.

      It really devalues the dead. As the diarist says, our society does not value the lives of young Black men as human beings. That is what thes posters are showing.

      It is dispicable to use a discussion of the loss of a young life as a chance to vent at young people' s loud music.
      At the very least, pretty thick headed/non empathetic. Comes across as defending a killer if you mean that or not. Definetely shows how little you are valuing the life of a young Black Man

      thus proving the thesis of the diarist in the first place.

    •  I thought about the way Trayvon was portrayed (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kj in missouri, shanikka

      (smoking marijuana, horrors!) and thought about my older daughter. I have no doubt that people could be found who witnessed "bad" behavior on her part (certainly smoking marijuana was witnessed by many, all of them doing it with her!). But it is unlikely that would ever happen because she's a white, Jewish young woman from a white, Jewish middle-class family. She's assumed to be good. While young black men are assumed to be bad.
      This prejudice is endemic in people with authority, like police, even when those people are black themselves. (the famous case from my area of the totally unjustified killing of a young black man, for example: http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/... )
      I think about my nephew -- he's black and when he was a teenager, living at home with his white family in Chevy Chase, MD, he apparently was routinely stopped by police, while walking down his own street! Obviously he was up to no good, being black in a white neighborhood.  And this is the perfect test of the theory about the white or authority view of young black men -- would my daughter (or a white male of the same age) be stopped for walking down our street? Highly unlikely. But her cousin, from a family with more money (and prestige) than us committed the crime of having dark skin, and for that crime, he was subjected to police intervention.

      We're not perfect, but they're nuts! -- Barney Frank

      by Tamar on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 06:45:29 PM PST

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