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View Diary: Hey America! Can you please stop killing our (usually) innocent Black male children now? (423 comments)

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  •  dunno (5+ / 0-)

    I haven't read Denise's diaries on here but I have read enough diaries on Racism to know that much of the Left also has blinders on when it comes to Racism.

    Tribalism is as old as humankind. It is human nature.

    Sure, you can tell your tribe that you don't want to be around their insanity anymore, but then there is a question of how much influence your tribe has in society.

    The larger and more dominant a tribe is in society, the more difficult it is make such a dent in the indoctrination that goes on in  said tribal culture.

    If you are a member of a tribal majority, there won't be enough of those like you to matter. Your dissent will be noble but insignificant.

    I come from the Malcolm X school of thought, rather than the Martin Luther King school of thought on this issue.

    People credit Martin Luther King with changing minds on the racial conflict between blacks & whites.  But did he really?

    Sure, some white people felt were ashamed when they saw their own kind turning dogs and fire hoses on peacefully marching black people. But was that REALLY the catalyst for the passage of the Civil Rights Act?

    What they saw going on TV was very MILD compared to what they've already seen their own kind doing in their on backyards and neighborhoods - the violent  killings, lynchings and the 'negro barbecues' where they passed burnt negro fingers among their kids and loved trading pictures of tortured blacks on postal cards.

    It was happening in right in their backyards and if they weren't out & out racists, most of them knew what they were doing was wrong & unconstitutional but still  consented to it for so long by doing NOTHING  because it was beneficial to their own tribe.

    So let's not pretend most of the 'majority' were surprised or ashamed by seeing actions of their own 'tribe' they saw on TV. The greater catalyst for the signing of the Civil Rights Act was FEAR. Fear of what? Fear of black people bringing the race riots into their own backyard. Fear of an existential threat to society - rebellious black people. Fear of slave uprisal.

    People ignore how at the same time MLK marched peacefully, there were race riots going on in other cities and other black leaders  like Malcolm X calling for escalated violence if their calls for the tribal majority to acknowledge their constitutional rights went unanswered.

    That was the backdrop that MLK worked his magic in to convince just enough of the tribal majority to turn against their own tribe and tell them to stop being so damned unconstitutional. If that backdrop didn't exist, I don't think MLK would have had much success.

    As you know - history doesn't like to talk about this backdrop much, because it is a terrible and shameful history and our history books are a form of tribal majority indoctrination, where much truth is whitewashed out. Popular history likes MLK because he was the peaceful black guy that spoke to whites & didn't call for violence against a single white person.

    This missing backdrop is evident in the perspectives regarding racial conflicts among many on the Left, and even here on DailyKos, but that shouldn't be surprising because we all are forming our own perspectives on race from the same historically incomplete & biased sources that were written by the tribal majority.

    •  You Should Read Denise's Diary (and Diaries) (5+ / 0-)

      She is one of the voices that I always learn from, always. Her history and her activism are an inspiration, and her fearlessness in writing something I can only hope to aspire to someday.

      As far as the Malcolm X school of thought, I don't think I've made much of a secret of what I feel and believe, which is that he was right.  I revere Dr. King, and always will, but the prescriptions for our people that resulted from his approach have not resulted in the promised land for our people and, in many ways, for too many of our people, we are collectively worse off.

      I especially agree with you about the passage of the Civil Rights Act, coming as it did right on the heels of Malcolm's seminal speech The Ballot of the Bullet. I don't know if you ever read the diary I wrote about him here, several years ago now, but my thinking is much more articulated there.

      •  thanks for the heads up (5+ / 0-)

        I will take some time to read the diaries mentioned.

        Glad we're on the same page. Yes, Malcolm X was spot on with The Ballot or the Bullet speech. I still re-read it occassionially, as it is still very relevant today and helps me properly re-align a lot of my views on race and politics. Every time I read it, I realize something new.

        I won't say what King did was all for naught. What King did was the prescription for the era - Dr. King was the Good Cop to Malcolm X's Bad Cop.  That's exactly how I see it - a national Good Cop/Bad Cop negotiation with the white majority.

        But yeah, too many people fail to understand that MLK was about the past and negotiating for white people.  His prescription expired when the Civil Rights Act passed.

        Malcolm X, on the other hand, was talking for black people about the future - how to deal with white majority tribalism & be self-sufficient :)

    •  Whenever I hear anyone talk about how our history (0+ / 0-)

      books don't teach this or don't teach that, I think maybe we should pass a law insisting that all American History teachers should be African-American. Mine was and we learned many of the things everyone tells me they didn't learn.

      (note to the literal minded: I know we can't really make all American History teacher African American.)

    •  Malcolm X and MLK were both needed (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      shanikka

      Like a carrot and a stick. Like good cop-bad cop.

      That quote about GDP by Robert Kennedy

      by erichiro on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 12:23:30 AM PST

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    •  While I too tend to be from the Malcolm X (4+ / 0-)

      School of thought and agree emphatically with this comment, having come from my own black nationalist past, what you are concluding doesn't follow.

      I agree that much of what MLK accomplished was due to the comparative backdrop of much less desire able outcomes for the majority. I couldn't agree more.

      But your initial comment seemed to suggest that there's nothing we can do about the genocide of black boys and men because...tribalism and human nature.

      Surely you can see that your sentiments are contradictory.

      The diary is an amazing tribute. But even shanikka posted a couple of Facebook comments posted by endangered young black men encouraging or espousing a "much less desirable outcome" for the majority with respect to this genocide.

      Like you I'm not totally sure the desireable solution can be effective exclusive of a less desirable backdrop. I applaud Deo's diary encouraging people to live it, to do something. I think that has to be the primary action. And I happen to think it can be more effective against an undesirable alternative. But you seem to say:(or rather you do say), it's pointless.

      I disagree. But more over I think you disagree with your own self.

      For the record, I am not a member of Courtesy Kos. Just so you know. Don't be stupid. It's election season. My patience is short.

      by mdmslle on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 02:44:10 AM PST

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      •  I Think There is always (5+ / 0-)

        An inherent tension in how folks think about these things. I know it is in me, to be sure. I was horrified when I read those facebook posts; not just because I felt "Well now there's a way to guarantee your own funeral" but because deep down I understood the sense of futility that leads someone (especially a young male in this country) to just say "fuck it; this country won't protect me I'll protect myself by any means necessary."  I feel the same way about Malcolm and Dr. King until I realize that philosophically particularly in their later works closer to the end of their respective lives, they really weren't all that far apart no matter what American propaganda says.

        I do agree thought that a salient difference between the two is who they were speaking to and who they expected solutions to come from, primarily. One looked more within our community, than without it. I think the culture decided that the latter was the safer course, and discouraged the former. I think our salvation as a people in this land ultimately requires that we do a little bit more of the former (developing solutions out of self-love that are not grounded in stereotypes that assume we are defective, rather than still largely oppressed) even while never giving up hope about the more external solutions as well.

        If that makes sense (and it might not; it's only 5AM here LOL).

        •  Yeah, you are right. And BTW thanks for that (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          shanikka, peregrine kate, Yasuragi

          amazing and powerful diary. I have hotlisted it. Shared it and I want to thank you for your work on it, difficult as it must have been to do.

          Anyway, yes toward the end of their lives King and Malik El-Shabazz were closer philosophically than in earlier times.

          My point with the commenter was that in one comment he literally said it's hopeless to try to change this. Then in the next he talked about how MLK/X- good cop/bad cop actually forced change. To me, those two sentiments are incongruous.

          As far as the kids who expressed frustration, you know what, I think sometimes people can actually feel that they are willing to die. Lord knows none of us would be here today had no a whole hell of a lot of people decided, quite deliberately, to risk their lives for equality. Literally. I think those messages of frustration actually are deeper than what they appear on the surface. They may not be "just" expressions of frustration. How would what they are saying differ from someone who is saying, "I'm willing to die but I will not be a slave. I will not live as less than a human." What is the difference in expression. Surely these boys know that what they are saying, if they actually lived it out, could mean their death. But they live under the cloud of death everyday anyway, don't they? Perhaps these are attitudes that are needed. Live free or die. Or die with dignity (since you suspect you're going to die anyway). Or go down fighting. Or any other similar expression.

          Like you, I am not a black man. So I cannot know first hand the frustration and anger and sense of resignation or fight that they feel. But I will say, I understand it and wouldn't question it at all. They really are fighting for their lives.

          For the record, I am not a member of Courtesy Kos. Just so you know. Don't be stupid. It's election season. My patience is short.

          by mdmslle on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 10:44:33 AM PST

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    •  I find this a vastly oversimplified (0+ / 0-)

      And cynical view.  History is filled with examples of people in large numbers doing things because it is the right think to do.  

      Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

      by Mindful Nature on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 09:00:22 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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