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View Diary: In 2008 we elected a smart president, but in 2012 we elected a MUCH SMARTER president. (155 comments)

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  •  Right?! (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cedwyn, Beetwasher, mali muso, fumie

    It's completely absurd to think Obama could win even the first election as an "innocent."  I mean, what the fuck?  They guy raised $100 million from Wall St.  the first time around.  Are we to believe that he got that money with doe eyes and a song in his heart?!  Are we to believe he defeated Bill and Hillary Clinton with earnestness?!

    I recommended the diary because at least the diarist believes he's smart.  Also, I think it's fair to say he's learned in office.  All Presidents do because no President has ever been President before taking the job.  But there are many around here, front-pagers even, who actually believe Obama is naive.

    It's really fucked up if you ask me.

    •  seriously...a black man (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fou, Beetwasher, mali muso

      named barack HUSSEIN obama who got himself elected president is a bumbling naif.  

      fucking please.

      Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

      by Cedwyn on Sat Dec 01, 2012 at 10:18:43 AM PST

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      •  Give me a break, Cedwyn. (0+ / 0-)

        Like I suggested anywhere in my diary that Obama was "a bumbling naif."  See my response to fou, please.

        "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

        by StellaRay on Sat Dec 01, 2012 at 11:14:36 AM PST

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        •  i wasn't referring to anything you wrote (0+ / 0-)

          your diary doesn't even contain the word "naive."  

          i was having an exchange with fou, and my comment only speaks to what fou wrote.

          so yeah, give me a break; you'll notice i rec'd the diary.

          Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

          by Cedwyn on Sat Dec 01, 2012 at 06:26:19 PM PST

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          •  Forgive me if I misunderstood. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Cedwyn

            Fou has called me out repeatedly here, and it seemed to me that you were in agreement with him.  Again, apologies if I misunderstood.

            "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

            by StellaRay on Sat Dec 01, 2012 at 07:03:38 PM PST

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        •  Stella said learning curve, not dumb. (0+ / 0-)

          The man is smart.  But he made mistakes one makes when learning how to navigate new territory.  FDR made mistakes.  Lincoln too.  Watching BHO during the 2010 campaign, he clearly was over his head due to new territory.  That was StellaRay's point.  Cedwyn is also correct that he is savvy enough to be underestimated ala Biden.  But the two points are not contradictory and Stella never stated he was incapable of using this strategy now.  
          On a separate note, IMHO, the POTUS did not negotiate in a coy way his first 4 years.  He was fairly direct and transparent.  He was trying to be an adult and lead by example.  Unfortunately, he was negotiating with a republic Party who had no incentive to learn to act differently.  In fact, they were rewarded for bad behavior in 2010.  Now they have had a spanking in 2012 and they are in jeopardy and have real consequences that matter to them (they are in decline; their masters will be upset if they destroy their wealth by rocking the stock markets w/ petty bullshit).  So they might now be willing to learn.  But BHO is no longer willing to be teaching them how to play nice.  Now he is ready to just cut them at the knees.  Too bad, so sad.  That train has left.  Suck on it. :)

          Mmmmm. Sprinkles. - H.J. Simpson.

          by ten canvassers on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 08:46:02 AM PST

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    •  I feel you're going way overboard (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Beetwasher, fumie

      regarding my use of the words naive and innocent, and defining them in ways I didn't and don't.

      If you have read the comment thread as well as my diary, you've seen just how tough I think the president is. But that doesn't deny my feeling that he did not know what he was walking into the day he put his hand on the Bible.  No president does, but then again, no other president has been treated to the most obstructionist congress in history. No one saw that coming, and many were caught off guard, including the president. The fact that he got as much accomplished as he did is testimony to his ability to stay cool and recover his game quickly.  

      One can be tough as nails and still innocent and or naive to an experience not lived yet.  And no, all presidents do not learn in office. GWB's second term was worse than his first.

      And finally as I said in a comment above, I saw a certain stubborness in the president, a couple of beats too long on the bi-partisan thing when it was clear it was going nowhere. He believed he could bring republicans to heel by playing nice. I think it's clear he has re-considered that strategy.

      I don't think it's "fucked up" to consider thoughtful critiques on the president, and I don't think he would think it so either.

      "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

      by StellaRay on Sat Dec 01, 2012 at 11:09:26 AM PST

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      •  Honestly, how many Presidents have been (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Beetwasher, vcmvo2

        characterized as "naive"?  Plenty have been characterized as weak, but "naive"?  This President seems to bear that singular distinction.

        The words "innocent" and "naive" have very specific meanings.  I consider the choice of those words to describe this President a poor one.

        •  I would characterize (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          fumie

          ALL presidents naive to the experience of the presidency before they've had that experience.  You are seeing insult where none was intended and defining what I said in a way I did not intend it.  

          "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

          by StellaRay on Sat Dec 01, 2012 at 11:30:06 AM PST

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          •  If all Presidents are naive, then there's no (0+ / 0-)

            point in describing any that way because their "naivete" is really a moot point.  I think the more appropriate characterization is "inexperienced."  Many Presidents have attested that nothing prepared any of them for the rigors of the Presidency.

            I think it's absurd to describe any person who succeeds in being elected to world's most powerful office as "naive" or "innocent".    I honestly don't know why anybody would do that.

            •  I think one (0+ / 0-)

              can be tough as nails, smart as blue blazes, and still be naive and or innocent to certain experiences in life.  We must just agree to disagree.

              I do appreciate you adding in to the discussion, even if we do disagree. I think your intentions and passions are as fair as mine.  

              "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

              by StellaRay on Sat Dec 01, 2012 at 11:48:22 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

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