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View Diary: In 2008 we elected a smart president, but in 2012 we elected a MUCH SMARTER president. (155 comments)

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  •  Who said anything about "stupid?" (0+ / 0-)

    IMO, you never open negotiations by giving away too much from the get go.  

    And I would ad, that Obama's compromises were met as non starters as well.  He got the Affordable Health Care Act without ONE Republican vote in the house. Compare that to FDR, who got many republican votes for Social Security, same for LBJ with Medicare. (And btw, FDR was also re-elected with an un-employment rate above 8%).

    "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

    by StellaRay on Sat Dec 01, 2012 at 12:24:58 PM PST

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    •  Well, I'd say it depends. (0+ / 0-)
      IMO, you never open negotiations by giving away too much from the get go.
      Well, you'll have to define "way too much."

      Also, what sense does it make to entertain how much to give or not to give to people who aren't negotiating in good faith to begin with?  Now that would be naive.

      And I would ad, that Obama's compromises were met as non starters as well.  He got the Affordable Health Care Act without ONE Republican vote in the house.  Compare that to FDR, who got many republican votes for Social Security, same for LBJ with Medicare. (And btw, FDR was also re-elected with an un-employment rate above 8%)

      That claim is inaccurate.
      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

      One Republican lawmaker out of 177 crossed party lines to support the health care reform legislation offered by Democrats.

      Rep. Anh "Joseph" Cao, the Louisiana Republican who hails from a decidedly Democratic New Orleans district, voted yea on the final passage of legislation. He joined 219 Democrats to make the final margin 220 to 215 in favor of reform's passage.

      Also, SS only covered widows and orphans in its original incarnation.  It's highly unlikely that that was FDR's opening bid.  He very likely compromised to win Republican votes, and yet you hold him up as a paragon of political strength.  However, since you've stipulated that at least one vote from the opposition party is the threshold between naivete and shrewd political gamesmanship, Obama is in fact in the Pantheon of the greats.  

      And, and, Republicans have voted at least 33 times to repeal the ACA after its passage and ratification by the Supreme Court.  Name one other President who's succeeded in winning that.

      And yes, I realize FDR was re-elected with unemployment above 8%.  Obama was too more or less (7.8% is practically 8%), and both men are the only two Democrats to win 53% of the popular vote.  But these historical comparisons aren't particularly meaningful.  After all, a President isn't necessarily naive if his legislative successes are not won with votes from the other party, or if he isn't re-elected with high unemployment.

      •  I only mentioned FDR getting (0+ / 0-)

        re-elected with a higher than 8% unemployment rate because you had erroneously stated in the comment above that President Obama was the only president to have ever done so.

        Also from Wikipedia on the passage of the ACA:

        The House passed the bill with a vote of 219 to 212 on March 21, 2010, with 34 Democrats and all 178 Republicans voting against it.[1
        Furthermore, my statement about FDR's passage of SS and LBJs passage of Medicare was not in the interest of holding him as some "paragon of political strength" over Obama.  But rather was intended to be about the degree of the current GOP's intransigence towards the president.

        I feel you have cherry picked a word or two you disagree with from my diary and all my comments here and tried over and over to pull me into an argument about it.  Well, you'll get no argument from me that Barack Obama is one smart, tough competitor, a thoughtful man of great grace and dignity, who I am proud to have as my president.  

        I'm not interested in any further argument about semantics.  We've both said our peace.  Let it go.

        "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

        by StellaRay on Sat Dec 01, 2012 at 03:27:43 PM PST

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