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View Diary: Israel Breaches Ceasefire - (maybe) Bombs Gaza? (UPDATED x 3) (140 comments)

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  •  This from from the VOR 3 hours ago: (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bluedust, aliasalias

    http://english.ruvr.ru/...

    At least four Palestinians have been injured after Israel reportedly shelled a residential area in Gaza Strip, thus violating fragile ceasefire.
    Can we discuss this issue calmly? Maybe apologies are due?

    866-OUR-VOTE!!(866-687-8683) Lyndon Johnson: The vote is the most powerful instrument ever devised by man for breaking down injustice and destroying the terrible walls which imprison men because they are different from other men.

    by JoanMar on Sat Dec 01, 2012 at 07:08:28 PM PST

    •  Yes, rational discussion is best (7+ / 0-)

      It says it is from Voice of Russia/RT

      RT is a known propaganda site. VOR picked this up as a byline from RT, which is linked to in this diary.

      A little about RT (from Wiki, under "objectivity"):

      After the 2005 announcement the station would be launched, the U.S. government-owned Voice of America (VOA)[100] interviewed Anton Nosik, chief editor of MosNews.com, who said the creation of Russia Today "smacks of Soviet-style propaganda campaigns."[101] A representative of Reporters Without Borders called the newly announced network “another step of the state to control information.”[102] In 2009 Luke Harding in The Guardian described Russia Today's advertising campaign in the United Kingdom as an "ambitious attempt to create a new post-Soviet global propaganda empire."[33]
      Under criticism:
      Russian sociologist and political commentator Boris Kagarlitsky described RT as a "continuation of the old Soviet propaganda services".[3] The channel is also accused of having close ties with the Russian state authorities[5][6] and of helping the Kremlin to project an overly positive image of Russia by refraining from criticizing the government, particularly Prime Minister Vladimir Putin.[6]

      Other criticism includes claims that RT is deliberately and incessantly engaging in US/NATO/EU-bashing through "interviews" in which only Russian ultra-nationalists or highly critical, anti-western "experts" are interviewed--without any probing questions or challenges by the RT reporters, and without even bothering to hear opposing points of view.[3]

      None of the Palestinian news agencies are reporting this. You can go through them one by one. I did. If any of the credible sites do report this, then this will be a story. Obviously.

      None of the various Palestinian FB sites I've looked at are reporting anything either, other than reposts of this here and there (which obviously are not first-hand reports given that they are, again, verbatim reposts).

      Outside of the VOR/RT loop, there are no reports of this right now.

      In addition, the actual language used in this diary, which was stated to be happening now, from "the friend," was oddly lifted from a five-week old statement made by a pro-Palestinian FB site that made the rounds using the same language on other similar sites there -- none of these sites, incidentally, are currently reporting any Israeli breach or bombing or anything out of the ordinary right now, although most of these have continued to report steadily.

      Twitter has gained some traction with this same story BUT the top trendings are saying that the RT story conflicts with other stories, and that better sourcing is needed.

      "Counsel woven into the fabric of real life is wisdom" - Walter Benjamin

      by mahakali overdrive on Sat Dec 01, 2012 at 07:22:32 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  In the byline, at the bottom (3+ / 0-)

        The VOR post linked to is an RT repost:

        Voice of Russia, RT
        One must be careful when dealing with very propagandized and non-objective news sources.

        If this is confirmed by a credible news source, then that would be another story.

        So far, all roads lead to RT.

        "Counsel woven into the fabric of real life is wisdom" - Walter Benjamin

        by mahakali overdrive on Sat Dec 01, 2012 at 07:30:15 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  If I could say something. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JoanMar

          It appears her friend is posting an update to a previous story, something about it might be an accident.
          In his post, he says a few minutes ago, but that is on Oct. 27.
          She keeps saying she talked to him, but that was prior, I do not get the feeling she talked to him today. She thinks it is happening now, but it is not. Looks like RT got the story confused also. She has not talked to him today but by now she might have since she has gone silent.

          The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. - Elbert Hubbard -9.62/-8.15

          by GustavMahler on Sat Dec 01, 2012 at 07:36:02 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Not following here? (2+ / 0-)

            In her updated diary link, it says it was posted four hours ago?

            MrAlaa Abu Aser II Eye On Palestine
            4 hours ago
            Israeli occupation drones and F16 warplanes hovering over the Gaza Strip at low altitudes.

            MrAlaa Abu Aser II Eye On Palestine
            Photo: Israeli occupation drones and F16 warplanes hovering over the Gaza Strip at low altitudes. MrAlaa Abu Aser II Eye On Palestine
            3Like · · Share

                2 people like this.
                Diane Gee Are you ok, I hear they are bombing you again?
                3 hours ago · Like
                MrAlaa Abu Aser II Eye On Palestine yes it is true my friend .. and yes it was tow explosions
                3 hours ago · Like
                Diane Gee Fuck Israel
                3 hours ago · Like · 1

            Where is the date confusion about his post? She linked to this in her diary (as an update), so I feel okay reposting it, and here it shows that they spoke three hours ago. And it shows that four hours ago, when he posted this, he reposted from an Oct. 27th story.

            I'm not even going to get into the second update.

            Can you help explain to me what you are seeing that isn't here? Thank you.

            "Counsel woven into the fabric of real life is wisdom" - Walter Benjamin

            by mahakali overdrive on Sat Dec 01, 2012 at 07:51:43 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  So a news organization is (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Diane Gee, aliasalias

        reporting this and the diarist claims she has two sources on the ground...I say give her the benefit of the doubt.
        She may have been attempting to break the news.
        You'll certainly look bad, MO, if tomorrow you find out that she was right.
        Personally, I don't know for sure. I would have seen this diary, read it and walked on by hoping that it isn't true. No need to beat up on her.

        866-OUR-VOTE!!(866-687-8683) Lyndon Johnson: The vote is the most powerful instrument ever devised by man for breaking down injustice and destroying the terrible walls which imprison men because they are different from other men.

        by JoanMar on Sat Dec 01, 2012 at 07:31:28 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  If not look bad, at least feel bad... (0+ / 0-)

          866-OUR-VOTE!!(866-687-8683) Lyndon Johnson: The vote is the most powerful instrument ever devised by man for breaking down injustice and destroying the terrible walls which imprison men because they are different from other men.

          by JoanMar on Sat Dec 01, 2012 at 07:34:08 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Why would I feel bad? (6+ / 0-)

            For pointing out that there has been a problem with the reporting and that RT is a propagandist site sort of like PressTV?

            I'm an academic, JoanMar. I would never feel bad for trying to analyze a news sources' integrity.

            I would feel bad about the truce being broken, obviously. I already feel bad for the man who died after walking into some sort of military device -- I imagine a grenade but how to know -- and dying from the shrapnel. That's a story. It was what I originally thought this referred to since it was the only one reported recently by any Palestinian news outlets. If you are asking whether I feel bad, in general, for Palestine, you better believe I do.

            I hope this story doesn't rile any fringe groups up into attacking Israel and thus accidentally breaking the truce based on RT's "not sure if it was an industrial explosion or a bomb" story. That would be dreadful after Abbas' success with the UN.

            "Counsel woven into the fabric of real life is wisdom" - Walter Benjamin

            by mahakali overdrive on Sat Dec 01, 2012 at 07:46:41 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  There is no source on the ground (6+ / 0-)

          that is reporting this credibly, sorry. The one source who says he's there used someone else's repost to make his case -- from FIVE weeks ago. I have trouble trusting that person, don't you? It was verbatim.

          I am not beating up on her. Where have I said anything to personally denigrate this diarist? Mind you, the diarist has called me both a liar and an asshole for linking to posts which show a combination of basically repeated language as well as noncredible, circular sourcing. Nonetheless, I have remained civil, so if you think I will "look bad" tomorrow should this story prove true, I am not concerned with that because I am looking at this objectively with the sensible question of "How do we assess as story as credible?" first and foremost. Once I saw that her firsthand, on-the-ground source lifted the language from an old post, it was very hard to believe that person's "firsthand" reports. Perhaps he is telling the truth and this will be very important if that's the case. I will commend his truth-telling if that's the case, as well as his excellent journalistic integrity.

          I find nothing on any Palestinian sources -- only a few reposts here and there of that same bit of language in some blogs and tweets, but nothing firsthand and nothing original, and nothing in the news there -- and have looked exhaustively.

          Likewise, I find nothing in any other sources.

          Occam's razor.

          If Reuter's runs this, if a small independent Palestinian source runs it with additional information, then it will be news.

          I am not going to argue about what constitutes "news."

          The author made a claim that was questionable, I looked for a better source, and I find that the source claiming to be a "friend" lifted this language, as well as GazaTVNews issuing a statement that they weren't sure if this was an explosion (although they were also basing their news, on the ground, not in fact from on the ground reports, but from something they also read in Russia Today).

          These are the facts as they presently stand. Considering that all has not been stable in Israel-Palestine, if tomorrow we find out that RT broke a story before the Palestinian news and people, then it will be important to revisit it.

          "Counsel woven into the fabric of real life is wisdom" - Walter Benjamin

          by mahakali overdrive on Sat Dec 01, 2012 at 07:41:20 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Diarist seems to backing away from (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            PeterHug, mahakali overdrive

            from the assertions she made earlier so it seems you have been proven right.
            Was it an attempt to deceive, to inflame or an honest mistake?
            Since none of that has anything to do with the quality of life of Palestinians, or of Israelis for that matter, I could care less.

            866-OUR-VOTE!!(866-687-8683) Lyndon Johnson: The vote is the most powerful instrument ever devised by man for breaking down injustice and destroying the terrible walls which imprison men because they are different from other men.

            by JoanMar on Sat Dec 01, 2012 at 07:53:07 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  You will note that I never HR'd the diary (6+ / 0-)

              If I thought it was an intent to deceive or inflame, I would have done so.

              Given that her "friend" clearly used someone else's language to describe current events, I would say it's likely that she was deceived.

              And many people, such as myself, did try to warn her of that, but she was not receptive to hearing this. I am glad she is now more understanding of why the story may be premature and/ore specious.

              Also, such a story could impact the quality of life for both Palestinians and Israelis if it got into the hands of some extremists who took offense and starting attacking the other side based on this unsourced report.

              "Counsel woven into the fabric of real life is wisdom" - Walter Benjamin

              by mahakali overdrive on Sat Dec 01, 2012 at 07:58:28 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

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