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View Diary: The End of Weather As We Knew It (102 comments)

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  •  nice hippie punching there (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Methinks They Lie

    you can stuff your "elite environmental extremist" BS. an ally that makes a display of disrespecting people trying to make things better is not one i want on my side. go impress your friends, if it makes you happy. it's petty and it doesn't solve the problem.

    •  I think you missed something. nt (0+ / 0-)

      "It's not like lightning or earthquakes. We've got a bad thing made by men, and by God that's something we can change." John Steinbeck

      by Snarky McAngus on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 06:37:39 AM PST

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    •  Some of them fit that definition... (2+ / 0-)
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      maybeeso in michigan, Thumb

      I'm tired of being guilted by self appointed environmental judges for living in a rural area (where I can grow my own food and heat with wood scraps and corn) , riding a motorcycle (that gets 30 to 60 MPG), driving a diesel car (40+ MPG), and owning a pickup (that I drive at most a thousand miles a year). The greenest city dweller would be hard put to reduce their energy use and greenhouse gas production to what I can accomplish out here!

      •  That's a fair statement... (2+ / 0-)
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        soarbird, ladybug53

        ...to an extent.  I know a not-quite-limosine liberal who drives a 15-mpg FJ cruiser everywhere.  She lives on a dirt road but I'm pretty sure that's the closest she's ever come to actually needing four wheel drive, let alone a Hummer lite.  Living like that isn't the answer.

        Neither is a blithe, "we-can-fix-it" attitude.  I'm bringing my life (along with my family's) around to a less consumptive, more self-sufficient way of living.  It takes time--we garden now but I'm saving up to get a little farm with an actual barn, not just a dirt patch among the trees with a converted garage (which mostly holds firewood anyway).

        But it's dangerous--in fact, hubristic and foolish--to assume that we can simply gearhead and engineer our way out of this.  We gearheaded and engineered our way into it.  The lesson we humans are collectively going to learn over the next century is summed up by the songwriter Dougie McLean: "You cannot hold the land--the land holds you."  

        We will not tame or reverse the climate change happening now.  At best we will adapt to it and survive.

        •  Good points... (0+ / 0-)

          But the environmental extremists that insist that we eliminate motor vehicles and heated homes and live in the dark only alienate potential allies. We don't have to cut emissions to zero to get to 350 ppm.- but we do have to cut them a lot. For example, no point in driving a 15 MPG pickup or SUV when a bicycle, mass transit, or 50 MPG motorcycle will get you there. Heck, just replacing a 15 MPG pickup with a garden variety 30 MPG compact car will cut greenhouse gas emissions in half.

      •  Good for you (1+ / 0-)
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        ladybug53

        As far as I can tell, rural is often as green as urban. However, big houses in low density suburbs generally aren't green. It is possible to live a low-carbon life just about anywhere. But some places make that easy and cheap and other places don't.

        All of us can reduce our carbon footprints, but individual actions are not going to get us there. As long as we subsidize high-carbon choices and penalize low-carbon choices, we in this country are going to remain the major obstacle to really dealing with climate change.

        Instead of being guilted, perhaps you can educate those people with your model of rural green. We do need to combine as many supporters of reality-based policies as possible!

        We can safely abandon the doctrine of the eighties, namely that the rich were not working because they had too little money, the poor because they had too much. JK Galbraith, 1991

        by Urban Owl on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 08:55:29 AM PST

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        •  Urban folks need educating too... (0+ / 0-)

          I have yet to see a need for big 'ol SUVs in the urban sunbelt!

          •  I totally agree (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ladybug53

            To be clear, I meant that you could try to educate those who try to guilt you, since there is the common ground of caring about climate change.

            And I will repeat that all of us in the reality-based community need to work together on this one.

            We can safely abandon the doctrine of the eighties, namely that the rich were not working because they had too little money, the poor because they had too much. JK Galbraith, 1991

            by Urban Owl on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 10:41:32 AM PST

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      •  It's been proven that apartments and condos (3+ / 0-)

        are the best land use because all the services are shared. Where I live most of the new buildings are LEED-certified.

        LEED-certified buildings are designed to:
        - Lower operating costs and increase asset value
        - Reduce waste sent to landfills
        - Conserve energy and water
        - Be healthier and safer for occupants
        - Reduce harmful greenhouse gas emissions
        - Qualify for tax rebates, zoning allowances and other incentives in hundreds of cities
        LEED addresses the entire lifecycle of a building.

        i have seen workmen slowly deconstruct a building instead of demolishing it. That leaves salvageable material for reuse.

        signed,
        Urban e.e.e.

        ❧To thine ownself be true

        by Agathena on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 12:06:10 PM PST

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      •  Talk about self-righteous. You've got a chip on (0+ / 0-)

        your shoulder and feel a need to strut around.

        Well strut on. I hope it helps you to feel better about yourself. In the meantime, start picking fights with someone who's actually NOT on your side. (hint: rightwingers)

        "Fortunately, I'm adhering to a pretty strict, uh, drug regimen to keep my mind, you know, uh, limber." The Dude

        by Methinks They Lie on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 03:32:49 PM PST

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