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View Diary: The Squandered Potential of Occupy (240 comments)

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  •  "The Democrats would have loved to work with OWS" (13+ / 0-)

    is utter bullshit.

    Many of the Occupy encampments were broken up by Democratic mayors.

    Even now, when the Democratic President praised those who responded in Sandy's wake, it was not Occupy he cited, despite their being the first on the scene and the most effective in distribution of services (to the degree that the National Guard and the Red Cross made use of Occupy Sandy's network).

    Occupy did not care to fold itself into the Democratic Party, though many members are Democrats, and the party did not care for Occupy at all.

    •  I think this is what most people don't "get" (11+ / 0-)

      about Occupy. They assumed it was or should be a branch of the Democratic Party- a partisan response to the Tea Party.

      Of course many of the ideals that Occupy stood for are leftist ideals, but they are ideals that the Democratic party doesn't always stand for, or only pays lip service to.

      P.S. I am not a crackpot.

      by BoiseBlue on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 06:50:47 AM PST

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      •  Read my comment below (n/t) (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        "Growing up is for those who don't have the guts not to. Grow wise, grow loving, grow compassionate, but why grow up?" - Fiddlegirl

        by gulfgal98 on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 07:00:52 AM PST

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      •  And they did nothing to change that relationship. (4+ / 0-)

        They wanted it to be adversarial, to be the "rebels." That's my point.  They had a choice to move on in into really doing things, or just continue making symbolic stands, and they said "fuck you" to tangible achievement because they considered it selling out.  Nothing will ever convince such people that they owe other people more than rhetoric.

        In Roviet Union, money spends YOU!

        by Troubadour on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 08:13:36 AM PST

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        •  No, what you do not get is (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Catte Nappe

          the Occupy, itself, is not a political movement in the sense of political parties etc.  It is a social movement and as such can and will effect political change.  It already has changed the conversation from debt reduction to income inequality and it will continue to do so.  

          One of the things my local occupation adopted as a cause was to educate the public on the danger of privatizing the prison system in our state.  We had a single sheet printed up that explained why privatization of the prisons was dangerous and we handed it out to people on the street.

          It may have been my local occupation was an anomaly, but with few exceptions we were warmly received by people we interacted with and many expressed support for the movement, including our local police dept.  But then I live in a blue city that allowed the local Occupy group to use a vacant city lot for the encampment and for public meetings.  

          It burns my butt that people who never became involved in a local occupation can somehow group us as being angry dirty hippies who simply were there to have a party and get into harassing the police. My local Occupy group did an inner city neighborhood cleanup in conjunction with the police dept. Things like this do not get the kind of publicity that beatings and police brutality do.  

          Change comes in many ways, but the pressure for real change is most often created by forces outside the political bubble because the PTB are always hesitant to relinquish any of that power or to go against their major donors.  

          "Growing up is for those who don't have the guts not to. Grow wise, grow loving, grow compassionate, but why grow up?" - Fiddlegirl

          by gulfgal98 on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 11:04:57 AM PST

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        •  MoveOn and PCCC already exists for your purposes. (0+ / 0-)

          Pick the right tool for the right job, and sign up.

    •  Not in my experience. (8+ / 0-)

      Maybe where you are, but here in New York City – i.e. where it all started – the Dems were mesmerized by that energy. It was all "why didn't we think of that?" and "how did these kids pull off in a week what we've been trying to do for years?"

      The latter was actually a question I had, and believe me, I've claimed quite a few scalps.

      Fuck you, I put on pants yesterday.

      by MBNYC on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 06:52:53 AM PST

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      •  If the party as a whole,... (5+ / 0-)

        ...not just individuals but the majority and the machinery of action, had supported Occupy, it could have demonstrated that and made the Occupation much more powerful.  The party chose not to do that, or neglected to do that, and permitted the encampment to be rousted repeatedly by Bloomberg's private militia of an NYPD. I don't argue that many Dems weren't whooping in delight at Occupy's emergence -- I talked with visitors to Zuccotti -- but let's be realistic when we assign that to the Democratic Party as a whole.  After all, on a Democratic site we are in a diary that is explicitly trashing Occupy for not doing what Troubadour wanted.

        •  Well... (3+ / 0-)

          ...think about it differently; there is actually no such thing as "the Democratic Party", in the sense of a single entity that can take coherent action. What we have are party orgs, for whichever level of government they serve, elected officials, candidates, clubs, independent groups like DFA or MoveOn, the unions, and so on.

          When I say "the Dems", that's probably a little bit too broad. But within that amorphous coalition, there were certainly quite a few elements, and not insignificant ones either, that wanted to work with Occupy.

          The mistake both sides made, I think, was expecting that the natural congruity of interests would lead inevitably to cooperation of some sort. But that would have required choices, which Occupy, leaderless by design and choice, was unable to make.

          And I'm not trashing Occupy by any means; I was involved, a lot of my friends were, and I have a little American flag on my desk right now that someone gave me at Zuccotti. That was our generation's bright shining moment, I think.

          Fuck you, I put on pants yesterday.

          by MBNYC on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 07:22:06 AM PST

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          •, PCCC, IWW and the DCCC already exist. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            Occupy is in the niche that it needs to be in for the moment: direct action and community support.

            Tactically, it appears to be the best choice, as they're filling niches that other left-leaning interest groups, including elected politicos leave vacant.

            Furthermore, it's painfully ironic that some are criticizing Occupy for what the rest of the left - including elected pols already practice: pursuing individual agendas even at the expense of building a broad over-arching movement.

            Finally, I have to go meta here: this whole thread reeks of ceremonial scape-gating, in-group, out-group nonsense. I'm starting to wonder when someone starts bashing Kos participants with 'Mom's Basement' and 'Cheetos' smears.

    •  Plenty of Democrats showed support here. Local (4+ / 0-)

      city council, our congressman, etc.  But it's true to local Democratic Mayor chose to appease downtown business interests rather than the actual people. On the third hand, too many in Occupy didn't even want to talk to anyone in government, just set up a new utopian in the city park and live happily ever after.

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