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View Diary: Should Americans Forgive the $2.5 Trillion Borrowed From Social Security? (181 comments)

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  •  thanks for dumbing it down, and creating (8+ / 0-)

    talking points (facts) that can be used in 'conversations' with RW's.
    It has been a little muddied and I've never really delved into the subject.

    "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." - Albert Einstein

    by pickandshovel on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 06:53:42 PM PST

    •  facts, yup. Sound fooking facts (2+ / 0-)

      FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

      by Roger Fox on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 08:36:28 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Such fact based stuff should also include a (0+ / 0-)

      mention of our in fact monetary system:  a fiat system.

      That's why the accounting matters, cuz with fiat, it's all accounting.  Nothing else.

      Fiat money is a unit of account.  It's just math, or accounting.

      There's no THING that is owed.

    •  Yes, this paragraph in particular is an eye-opener (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      katiec, pickandshovel
      So how would the government repay what it owes? It’s simple.  It just moves the number from the column on the right (in the table above) to the column on the left.  Paying down debt doesn’t create additional debt.  If the government decided to repay one trillion dollars to Social Security, it would issue marketable Treasury securities at auction like it normally does.  When investors buy the newly issued Treasuries, the government has one trillion dollars and an equal obligation to the new investors but the public debt amount isn’t increased.  Why?  The government would simultaneously transfer one trillion dollars to the Social Security Trust Fund and retire an equal amount of nonmarketable debt. The right hand column would be reduced to 3,849.872 and the left hand column would be increased to 12,411,598.  The sum total of the two would be unchanged.

      "Safety and security are the result of collective consensus. We owe our children, the most vulnerable citizens in our society, a life free of violence and fear." - Nelson Mandela. Donate to TREE Climbers

      by TX Freethinker on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 07:35:51 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, the diary should, IMO, make a bigger deal (0+ / 0-)

        out of the implications of this paragraph in context of having a fiat money system.

      •  and I used the same paragraph 'facts' to explain (0+ / 0-)

        it to a non partisan today during a lunch break. Hopefully he will use it in any conversations he may engage in, and so on...

        "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." - Albert Einstein

        by pickandshovel on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 06:40:31 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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