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View Diary: BIG NEWS: For First Time, Britain & France May Recall Ambassadors to Israel | U.S. Red Line Crossed (393 comments)

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  •  Rec'd because who could have not seen this coming? (12+ / 0-)

    That's the entire problem with this. It was retaliatory. And retaliations have consequences, and I have been saying that there will be consequences that are real -- not symbolic -- real, which put Israel in a very bad position with the rest of the world in a material sense. I understand that funding is mainly from the U.S. and Germany from what I've heard.

    But world standing is more than just immediate aide. The U.S. also was promised this would not happen, from what I read, according to Netanyahu, right before the UN/Abbas announcement. This is Netanyahu isolating a good and prosperous Nation from world standing. What the fuck is he thinking? That the world will just cheer this on? They aren't going to. Whether he likes that or not, it's not hard to see that the world has said that the green line (I don't know the term red line) is not to be touched right now.

    Does this include the more awkward parts, like Old Jerusalem? Unknown.

    But surely this is NOT A GOOD THING.

    I would strongly encourage all those who care about Israel and Palestine to try to speak out and express to Netanyahu that this is painting his nation into a bad corner with the rest of the world, and in a global world, and as a first-world nation, why would he do something so reckless? And why is he behaving as an antagonist? Unacceptable behavior and very disconcerting to me. I want Israel to prosper just as I want Palestine to prosper. With leaders like these, who needs enemies?

    The people of Israel deserve more than to wind up being economically fucked or lose world standing because of this tantrum.

    "Counsel woven into the fabric of real life is wisdom" - Walter Benjamin

    by mahakali overdrive on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 08:45:49 PM PST

    •  Obama needs to sit down with both sides (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Brecht, kaliope, elwior

      and make them discuss this to avoid any more ridiculous factionalization, IMHO.

      It's time to end this. It's time to be solutions-oriented. Since only the U.S. seems to have the clout to be heard, I would like this to be a place for not so much sanctions as a good stiff talking to so that a resolution will be come to.

      This is not yesterday. Everything is different. This will be a powderkeg if it's not tackled. Things will go bad. The best way to diffuse this is for peace talks to happen and now.

      "Counsel woven into the fabric of real life is wisdom" - Walter Benjamin

      by mahakali overdrive on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 08:54:37 PM PST

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      •  Would Bibi sit down? He didn't back down on Iran (6+ / 0-)

        (for now) until top Israeli military leaders started publishing opinions saying that attacking now was just wrong.

        Bibi's playing, and listening to, a domestic audience. Won't it take the same internal opposition to make Bibi reconsider this building?

        "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

        by Brecht on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 09:28:32 PM PST

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        •  He doesn't have much of a choice (7+ / 0-)

          Even though he's not a particularly rational individual from what I can see, any nation needs allies. Israel has increasingly few after this UN vote and now, this news from the UK and France. This will continue. Trust me on this. The world is NOT as it was before. Things are changing hard and fast. Five years ago, the idea of a black President was literally a lolcat somewhere. Things change. If you watch carefully, you can see enormous changes right now. So would Bibi listen to Obama? The two aren't cozy, but that's irrelevant since they are allies. Their lack of personal love might make for better conversation, actually. Obama was just pretty slighted. This makes the US and the President look... weak and played.

          Obama doesn't like looking either. Especially not while navigating with the GOP on this Fiscal Cliff stuff. And he is immaculate when it comes to diplomacy.

          It's more probable than divestments because Congress is more likely to ignore this. Obama is less likely to. Now, the question is just, will Bibi listen? If he doesn't want a big mess on his hands with no friends in the world, I would think he'd have to set aside his mistrust and join the world in trying to keep Israel afloat. That's what he's not seeing here: many countries DO care about both Israel AND Palestine, and they don't want any hurt to come to the citizens of either. To do that, there needs to be a peace treaty. Otherwise, it will be a lot of war. Could Israel be attacked and run through as surrounding nations have been? Well, they've got a good military, but this is no guarantee of anything.

          I think Bibi is courting civil war, to be very blunt here. You can see a change from before. A big one. A big few.

          So would he listen? Who knows. But Obama should be stern and not budge until a peace agreement has been come to.

          "Counsel woven into the fabric of real life is wisdom" - Walter Benjamin

          by mahakali overdrive on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 09:43:58 PM PST

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        •  Netanyahu will carry on building in Jerusalem and (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Brecht, poco, bluedust
          At a cabinet meeting on Sunday, Netanyahu rejected criticism of the decision to activate the plan. "We will carry on building in Jerusalem and in all the places that are on the map of Israel's strategic interests," he said.
          Netanyahu's stance is expected to find wide support among the Israeli public, who will go to the polls in a general election next month. Netanyahu's rightwing coalition is on course to emerge from the election with the largest number of seats in the Israeli parliament.
          http://www.guardian.co.uk/...

          "Who are these men who really run this land? And why do they run it with such a thoughtless hand? David Crosby.

          by allenjo on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 12:31:03 PM PST

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          •  your sig line is apropos. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            allenjo, poco

            "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

            by Brecht on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 01:09:11 PM PST

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            •  Yes, and thanks to David Crosby.... (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Brecht, poco, bluedust

              ;)

              I just read......

              The Israeli cabinet unanimously rejected the UN vote at its weekly meeting on Sunday.

              It described the West Bank as "disputed territory" over which the Jewish people had "a natural right".

              A natural right?

              What rights does Israel deem Palestine?

              Israel's Channel 2 reported that Rahm Emanuel, Barack Obama's former chief of staff, had described the behaviour of the prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, as "unfathomable".
              Rarely would I agree with Rahm Emanuel, but on this issue, "unfathomable" for sure, along with other adjectives I might use, but will not.

              As world opinion and sympathy turns against the right wing government of Israel and its deplorable actions, it seems to me that it is "unfathomable" that Netanyahu doesn't understand and deal with that.

              With AIPAC calling the shots in DC for so long, perhaps he thinks that will never change, and as long as he has the backing of US WH and congress, gets all those billions from US taxpayers, and the mighty mighty world's most expensive military in the entire world to back him, that he can do whatever he wants and the US will always come to his rescue.......

              We have to change this mindset in DC, and start weakening the impact of AIPAC there.

              "Who are these men who really run this land? And why do they run it with such a thoughtless hand? David Crosby.

              by allenjo on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 01:30:25 PM PST

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              •  all you're saying makes sense (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                poco

                still, I think by far the most important considerations, to Bibi and the Israeli cabinet, are those internal to Israel.

                For more than half a century there's been a conviction in Israeli power circles that Israel had a natural right to the West Bank. It's just that the pressures going on now are making them assert openly the beliefs that they generally have kept behind closed doors.

                "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

                by Brecht on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 01:50:57 PM PST

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    •  If the two-state solution dies Israel cannot (8+ / 0-)

      remain both democratic and Jewish.  That is just plain demographic reality.  If there is going to be only one state between the sea and the river, the majority of its inhabitants are going to be Palestinian within five years or so.

      And Israel will end up as isolated and reviled as apartheid South Africa.

      We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Former Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis

      by RageKage on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 09:53:10 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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