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View Diary: GOP obstructionism becomes treason on debt ceiling (61 comments)

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    •  T&R for solid analysis and facts (18+ / 0-)

      but the word treason is one not to be used lightly. And even if appropriate the fact is that it is such a strong word that it overshadows the rest of the important information in this post. So it is in fact the only part of this post I don't like even while agreeng with the essential point being made.

      Peace,

      Andrew

      "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

      by Andrew C White on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 07:42:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Treason with a Small "t" (8+ / 0-)

        Your point is well taken.  Treason is indeed a powerful word.

        That said, I should clarify that in this diary I'm using "treason" with a small "t."  That is, I'm not suggesting that that Republican leaders have committed treason in a legal sense or in the narrow Constitutional definition:

        "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. "
        Instead, I'm suggesting that the GOP's actions are a betrayal of the public trust and would do very real harm to the nation.
        •  you do yourself no favors (9+ / 0-)

          when you use treason. You're legitimizing the republican usage of the word when describing Democratic actions.

          47 is the new 51!

          by nickrud on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 08:09:06 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Treason in the Constitution is small t (9+ / 0-)

          Except for the first mention in Article III, sec. 2 where it begins a sentence, it is referred to in print copies as 'treason':

          ..... No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.
          The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason, but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood, or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted.
          Adam B. has specifically asked that the word be used as the Constitution intended.  

          Betrayal is an excellent word for what you mean....

          "Are you bluish? You don't look bluish," attributed to poet Roger Joseph McGough, for the Beatles' Yellow Submarine (1968).

          by BlueStateRedhead on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 08:53:16 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  How about "sedition"? (6+ / 0-)

            Sedition:

            1.     speech or behavior directed against the peace of a state

            2.     an offense that tends to undermine the authority of a state

            3.    an incitement to public disorder

            4.    revolt (archaic)

            (Collins English Dictionary)

            Anyway, thank you for your thoughts, Jon.  It's a weird and disturbing time, for sure.

            •  It has an unhappy history, Alien+sed. Act (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              jomsc

              I am not sure if it remains in use since.  IANAL. I wish Adam B would make this a matter of settled site procedure. OK or No go to use Treason loosely?

              "Are you bluish? You don't look bluish," attributed to poet Roger Joseph McGough, for the Beatles' Yellow Submarine (1968).

              by BlueStateRedhead on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 03:53:52 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Sedition is what I am inclined to say (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              BlueStateRedhead, US Blues, jomsc

              These are clearly acts that are intended to destroy the lawful functioning of our government.  Clearly, what the Republican Party has been doing for the last four years is unAmerican and definitely against the best interests of this nation.  The Republicans in Congress have placed their party above the good of our country.  As per the Wikipedia definition of sedition:

              In law, sedition is overt conduct, such as speech and organization, that is deemed by the legal authority to tend toward insurrection against the established order. Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent (or resistance) to lawful authority.

              "Growing up is for those who don't have the guts not to. Grow wise, grow loving, grow compassionate, but why grow up?" - Fiddlegirl

              by gulfgal98 on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 06:38:17 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Very thoughtful, just the kind of reasoning.... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                gulfgal98

                ....treason is not getting. I am just not in a position to say go/no go on sedition. I can on treason because I asked Adam B.

                "Are you bluish? You don't look bluish," attributed to poet Roger Joseph McGough, for the Beatles' Yellow Submarine (1968).

                by BlueStateRedhead on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 06:45:03 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Whatever we call their crime (2+ / 0-)

                  They should be treated as terrorists and punished accordingly.

                  "Political ends as sad remains will die." - YES 'And You and I' ; -8.88, -9.54

                  by US Blues on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 06:50:06 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Its not sedition either..for the same reasons (0+ / 0-)

                  Because we dislike someone's position on something does not make it ILLEGAL, even in a minor way much less in a grandiose form all dolled up with terms like Treason and Sedition being thrown around.

                  This is the same logic they use to say that taxing job creators goes against the founding laws about private property and is therefore a breach of the oath of office.

                  Its the same as saying that separation of church and state is equivalent of tyrannical oppression.

                  Its the same as saying that proposing cuts to the dept of defense is an overt attempt to demonstrably weaken the US and is therefore treasonous.

                  And the last major movement in this country that labeled as Sedition was the civil rights movement.  So if that counts as sedition that sign me up as a Seditionist.

                  The point is that all of these things (this diary included) are overblown hyperbole that do naught but cheapen real terms with real meanings; much as has been done with Terrorism, War, Hero and Patriot.

                  Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

                  by Wisper on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 07:18:25 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

        •  I appreciate your clarification (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kurt, Wisper

          but I can not agree with your word choice even if you mean it in a non legal sense

          We need to move past the 'well you're unAmerican' and the 'oh yeah well you're committing treason!' stuff. It's unproductive and needlessly moves this into the realm of the personal

          The GOP may be beyond hope of saving at this point but no need to drag us down to that level

        •  I dunno, when we have somebody like McConnell (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          renbear

          saying that they intend to make a sitting president a one term president by blocking everything he tries to do - I find it very hard not to use the T word.

          if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

          by mrsgoo on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 11:28:19 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  How has the GOP been ignored on this behavior? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          barleystraw

          Sedition according to Merriam Webster
          se·di·tion noun si-ˈdi-shən\
          Definition of SEDITION
          : incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority

          Treason according to Merriam Webster
          trea·son noun ˈtrē-zən\
          Definition of TREASON
          1: the betrayal of a trust : treachery
          2: the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or the sovereign's family

          Traitor according to Merriam Webster
          trai·tor noun ˈtrā-tər\
          Definition of TRAITOR
          1: one who betrays another's trust or is false to an obligation or duty
          2: one who commits treason

          "They love the founding fathers so much they will destroy everything they created and remake it in Rush Limbaughs image." MinistryofTruth, 9/29/11

          by AnnieR on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 06:27:18 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  treason...tea-reason... (0+ / 0-)

          with us or against us
          drill baby drill
          death panels
          psalm 109
          legitimate rape
          secession

        •  And in that I agree completely n/t (0+ / 0-)

          "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

          by Andrew C White on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 08:09:07 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Not. Daisy likes the Constitution as it is (5+ / 0-)

      At least, I think she does.  
      ASo unless the GOP is giving aid or comfort to an enemy country such as a terrorist organization, it ain't treasonous.
      I have Adam B.'s word in my comment stream somewhere that for Kos and Kogs, it's the constitutional definition that is binding.

      So here are a few for Daisy to use:

      Treacherous.  
      Unscrupulous.
      Dastardly.
      Nefarious.
      Despicable.
      Contemptible.
      Contumacious
      Mendacious

      "Are you bluish? You don't look bluish," attributed to poet Roger Joseph McGough, for the Beatles' Yellow Submarine (1968).

      by BlueStateRedhead on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 08:39:04 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Repubs had rather take the easy route (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ColoTim, elwior, ericlewis0

      of going over the cliff and causing great HARM to MOST Americans than face the wrath of Grover Norquist!
      Cowards!

      "Tax cuts for the 1% create jobs." -- Republicans, HAHAHA - in China

      by MartyM on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 09:35:45 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  As one said, it's much easier voting "no" in (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        elwior, CA wildwoman, ericlewis0, MartyM

        Washington than actually voting "yes".  The Republicans are all about obstruction and undermining the ability of government to function because having the government function goes against their interests (privatization, controlling contracts only to friends, minimal regulation/interference in the drive to make as much money as possible).

    •  No, it shouldn't... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      elwior, kurt, Lovo

      Treason is what Dick Cheney, Scooter Libby, and Karl Rove engaged in when they revealed that Valerie Plame was a spy. They knew something secret and revealed in such a way that it damaged our national security. They are traitors.

      What the GOP is engaging in as a whole is not treason, it is subversion. They are subverting our Constitutional form of government to further enrich the ruling elite by throwing delusional hissy fits on the floor of congress. What's sad is how many people take these delusional subversives "seriously."

      Regulated capital serves the people, unregulated capital serves itself.

      by Alumbrados on Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 10:44:55 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I am sure this won't go over well (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kurt, CroneWit, Wisper

      but I'm actually not going to reccomend this because of the use of the word 'treason'

      I don't like what the GOP stands for or does but I am not sure it's treason and even if it is calling it treason is not going to help matters

    •  OK, then what foreign country (0+ / 0-)

      is behind this and benefits?

      Overall, this is probably going to be a substantial hit to the world economy in general and I don't see anyone benefiting . . .

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