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View Diary: Ah, The Defense Keynesians Are Here (63 comments)

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  •  No (0+ / 0-)

    We got out of the Depression because the rest of the planet was flattened and we (and the Soviets) were the only industrial power left standing.

    The "gov't spending stimulates the economy" crowd would do well to look at Japan after their 1990 crash. Massive gov't spending, bridges, roads, infrastructure. Their stock market and home prices continued to slide, down almost every year until the present.

    (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
    Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

    by Sparhawk on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 11:23:30 AM PST

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    •  No. We were out of the depression several (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kyril, shaharazade, howd, radarlady

      years before the war orders started coming in, according to every major index of economic activity.

      Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

      by Robobagpiper on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 11:41:29 AM PST

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      •  Japan (0+ / 0-)

        What happened there? Have you even looked?

        Also, post WWII, Keynesians complained bitterly about the lost spending and how it would wreck the economy. Oops, we cut government spending massively and everything turned out ok despite their pleas.

        (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
        Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

        by Sparhawk on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 01:13:07 PM PST

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        •  I thought we were talking about the Depression (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Kevskos

          in the US. And all major economic indices show that we were out of it before the first war order came in.

          Perhaps you should go review bonddad's and New Deal Democrat's series on the Depression, starting here.

          Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

          by Robobagpiper on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 01:21:58 PM PST

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          •  Yeah (0+ / 0-)

            The common dodge of the Keynesianism defender. I always put the same challenge out and get zero response.

            Keynesianism is supposed to be this law of economics, right?

            Simple question: Name another scenario than the New Deal that Keynesianism worked, in any country, ever. Bonus points for it being comparatively recent.

            Japan: complete failure as I described (but you will not even entertain) despite doing exactly what you think we shoulg be doing. Greece: Massively overspent and collapsed. The US housing bubble: formed from Fed "stimulating" intervention by cutting rates too far.

            Every time the lesson is taught. Spend within your means, be frugal and careful, or be destroyed.

            (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
            Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

            by Sparhawk on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 02:27:34 PM PST

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            •  How about the US in 2008? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Kevskos

              The Obama stimulus created jobs and helped get us out (as much as we are). A larger stimulus would have done a much better job, but at least we have had some job growth. Europe chose austerity and they are heading back into another recession.

              I don't know the specifics of Japan. But I do know that Krugman studied Japan carefully and that is why he is more of a Keynesian than he was before. Perhaps you should read Krugman's work on Japan.

              •  Re (0+ / 0-)
                The Obama stimulus created jobs and helped get us out (as much as we are).
                We aren't "out". We're running massive trade and government deficits (over 100% of GDP now... it used to be at 50%!). And we're running 10% of GDP deficits which means the problem gets 10% worse a year.

                We papered over a private debt problem by making it a public debt problem. What's the next step?

                (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
                Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

                by Sparhawk on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 04:25:06 PM PST

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    •  That isn't quite true (0+ / 0-)

      The war did get us out of the depression. You are correct that we had a functional economy after the war unlike most of the rest of the previously industrialized world. We benefited from that position, but it was the process of mobilizing for war that got us out of the final effects of the depression.

      I have never been able to figure out if Fox is the propaganda arm of the Republican party or is the Republican Party the political subsidiary of Fox.

      by Dave from Oregon on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 05:12:57 PM PST

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      •  Re (0+ / 0-)
        We benefited from that position, but it was the process of mobilizing for war that got us out of the final effects of the depression.
        How can you separate the two? Especially when we have Japan as a counter-example?

        (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
        Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

        by Sparhawk on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 05:27:14 PM PST

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        •  Of course it was a progression (0+ / 0-)

          But the economy was growing through the war period and then 10M consumers came home from the military and a huge amount of pent up demand was unleashed. We also served foreign markets where there were no foreign competitors.

          I have never been able to figure out if Fox is the propaganda arm of the Republican party or is the Republican Party the political subsidiary of Fox.

          by Dave from Oregon on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 05:22:38 AM PST

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