Skip to main content

View Diary: Gun Control ← There, said it - We are going about this the wrong way (619 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  When we remove the use of statistics (8+ / 0-)

    as a simple tool to counter the other side, we free ourselves to take a good, hard look at the figures and try to make sense of them.

    In this instance, I entirely agree.

    Most violent crime is young men on young men. Much gun crime is predicated on the complete failure of the war on drugs.

    Remove some of those features and not only does violent crime (and gun crime) plummet, but the fear of crime reduces too.

    Less of it = Less to worry about.

    I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
    but I fear we will remain Democrats.

    by twigg on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 07:49:16 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  But if violent crime drops, shouldn't the fear (11+ / 0-)

      of guns also drop? If both part of the desire for the right to possess guns, and the desire for their regulation, derive from different responses to a fear of violent crime, shouldn't a reduction in such translate into a decreased call for regulation?

      After all, we're living in a country with half the violent crime rate of 20 years ago.

      I think those who are skittish about guns need to bask in that for a bit and learn to breath a welcome sigh of relief.

      Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

      by Robobagpiper on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 07:53:46 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Probably (4+ / 0-)

        and if that were to happen, and the deaths reduced, we wouldn't need the discussion.

        There is no need to change any laws if the problem has gone away.

        I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
        but I fear we will remain Democrats.

        by twigg on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 07:55:19 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I think there is (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dufffbeer, twigg

        a straw man here that I see a lot from the RKBA side.

        The belief, or at least the strong implication here, is that the reason people object to guns is due to personal fear ("the fear of guns should drop", "skittish about guns").

        Personally, I am not afraid of guns or being shot. I live in a very safe community, and also I live in town and not out in the woods where there might be hunters, so I am not going to be shot either on purpose or by accident. There has been one shooting in the town I live in during the past 10 years that I have lived here, and that was between two acquaintances (the shooter didn't even live in town).

        So, I am not at all afraid of being shot, and fail to see any need to carry a gun. My problem with guns is that I don't like people dying of gunshot wounds. I hate the totally unnecessary death toll from guns just like I hate poverty and hunger.

        •  If fear is an acceptable motivation for twigg (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          fuzzyguy, PavePusher

          to impute to owners to own, it's equally acceptable to impute to controllers as a motivation to control.

          You're trying to special plead here.

          Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

          by Robobagpiper on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 12:16:11 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  No (0+ / 0-)

            People upthread objected to the one. I'm objecting to the other. Nothing special about it, just stating the facts. The idea that the antis are just personally afraid is BS, at least in my own case.

            •  Then, alarm, concern, precaution the pros (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              fuzzyguy, PavePusher

              are using.

              If reducing rates of violent crime should be cause for people to be less inclined to arm up, it should similarly be cause for people to reduce the call for restricting arms.

              If not, then that's hypocrisy.

              Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

              by Robobagpiper on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 12:27:27 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site