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  •  The EU and Australia are recalling ambassadors (11+ / 0-)

    and the US was very upset too this morning.

    How many nations have recalled their ambassadors from Israel-under-Netanyahu? Britain, France, Germany, Italy, and Australia at least as of this morning.

    Germany has further stated, alongside other nations, this very morning, that they will not back Israel in the UN if these settlements do go ahead.

    As I've been saying, this settlement thing hurts Israel very much, as well as Palestine, and thus, no matter which side one is on, one should be HIGHLY concerned about this matter AND the US's role in it.

    Also, Netanyahu is refusing to pay monies (debt monies) to the Palestinians, who honestly are awfully poor. This is a mean-spirited move.

    Haaretz was saying this morning that there weren't enough Left voters due to demographic changes in Israel, with high birth rates from the Right wing, to keep non-Right-Wing Prime Ministers from being probable winners (sort of like in the US, how our increasing rate of Latinos does the same -- and these are primarily NOT new immigrants).

    The US must act quickly and decisively to avoid any peril to an eventual two-state solution.

    Things have changed.

    Click the <3 to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

    by mahakali overdrive on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 07:45:54 AM PST

    •  No, they aren't. They are "considering" it, (6+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      J M F, corvo, triv33, LaEscapee, Nada Lemming, pot

      which is a long way from doing it.

      You may have been confused by the headlines of articles you didn't read.  

      When the press reports that "France summons Israeli Ambassador", they mean that the Israeli ambassador in France has been officially called to justify his countries insanity, not that they have summoned back the French ambassador to Israel.

      "the Agency continues to verify the non-diversion of declared material at these facilities and LOFs."

      by JesseCW on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 07:56:20 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  JesseCW STOP IT NOW (0+ / 0-)

        I have read hundreds of articles on this, and yet you harangue me in diary after diary.

        Whatever personal chip you have on your shoulder, leave it be. I am tired of it and surely other readers are too.

        I am aware of it being "planned." If I said otherwise, that was a mistatement. I have read TONS of articles on this matter. So please set aside your personal bias toward me and talk about the issue.

        Click the <3 to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

        by mahakali overdrive on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 08:11:15 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  So a better word might be "called home" (0+ / 0-)

          or "summoned back" than "recalled"? Minor, minor semantic difference, but here's one article that I'd read:

          http://www.cnn.com/...

          excerpted

          Australia joined Tuesday in high-level diplomatic reprimands, following five European countries and the United States, which expressed their concerns Monday over Israel's decision to construct 3,000 new settler domiciles.

          Foreign Minister Bob Carr had the Israeli ambassador to his country summoned Tuesday to the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade over Israel's decision on new construction in East Jerusalem and on the West Bank, according to a statement on the ministry's website.

          Officials of the department expressed on Carr's behalf Australia's "grave concern" to Ambassador Yuval Rotem that Israel intended "to unfreeze planning in the area known as E1 and to withhold tax revenue from the Palestinian Authority." Carr was in Papua New Guinea at the time.

          The government in Canberra joins the five European nations Britain, Denmark, France, Spain and Sweden, who previously summoned Israel's ambassadors to their respective countries over the same concerns.

          The White House has also expressed its opposition Monday to settlement activity, but has not summoned Israel's ambassador.

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          by mahakali overdrive on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 08:24:26 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I think the difference is that those 5 countries (5+ / 0-)

            Have not recalled their ambassadors, they have called the Israeli ambassador in their country to account for the Bibi's recent actions.  Their own ambassadors to Israel remain in Israel.

            Cats are better than therapy, and I'm a therapist.

            by Smoh on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 09:01:52 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Sorry about any semantic discrepancy (0+ / 0-)

              I was trying to say "called back." I posted an article to show what I was trying to say here.

              Click the <3 to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

              by mahakali overdrive on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 09:35:21 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Here, let me correct this so that it's accurate (0+ / 0-)

                http://www.dailykos.com/...

                Let's change it to this, which reflects my supposition that if it's making International news as a threat of a recall (and recall IS the term being used), that will very likely happen -- I see no reason to think otherwise, and I don't believe this is bluster after the UN situation:

                The EU and Australia say they will probably be recalling ambassadors

                and the US was very upset too this morning.

                How many nations have said they will be likely recalling their ambassadors from Israel-under-Netanyahu? Britain, France, Germany, Italy, and Australia at least as of this morning.

                Germany has further stated, alongside other nations, this very morning, that they will not back Israel in the UN if these settlements do go ahead.

                As I've been saying, this settlement thing hurts Israel very much, as well as Palestine, and thus, no matter which side one is on, one should be HIGHLY concerned about this matter AND the US's role in it.

                Also, Netanyahu is refusing to pay monies (debt monies) to the Palestinians, who honestly are awfully poor. This is a mean-spirited move.

                Haaretz was saying this morning that there weren't enough Left voters due to demographic changes in Israel, with high birth rates from the Right wing, to keep non-Right-Wing Prime Ministers from being probable winners (sort of like in the US, how our increasing rate of Latinos does the same -- and these are primarily NOT new immigrants).

                The US must act quickly and decisively to avoid any peril to an eventual two-state solution.

                Things have changed.

                Here is a Google News feed about recalling ambassadors that anyone can check out -- and should -- for updates as they come in:

                https://www.google.com/...

                Click the <3 to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

                by mahakali overdrive on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 10:12:21 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  And this assumption seems reasonable (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  bluedust

                  given the actual statements being made.

                  From Haaretz:

                      Britain and France are poised to take action − possibly including the unprecedented step of recalling their ambassadors, according to senior European diplomats − in protest at Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s decision to move settlement construction ahead in the area known as E1, between Ma’aleh Adumim and Jerusalem.

                  “This time it won’t just be a condemnation, there will be real action taken against Israel,” a senior European diplomat said.

                  That sounds like this will likely happen. I guess it could be bluster. But it sounds like even though it's couched in the qualifier of "possibly," the statement itself from the diplomat is not qualified and says there "will" be "real action."

                  This is what I was suggesting some days ago, when people were saying it was symbolic action and bluster. I still feel that the words coming through are more definitive then that, and that times have changed, and that we shall, indeed, so real action.

                  Click the <3 to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

                  by mahakali overdrive on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 10:16:01 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

          •  I don't know the backstory (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JesseCW, mahakali overdrive, corvo

            between you and JesseCW, but on the factual issue: there were rumours that Britain was going to recall its ambassador, which is to say bring their ambassador to Israel home to the UK. But then the British Prime Minister denied it. Instead what happened is that a series of European countries, in a coordinated fashion, summoned Israel's ambassadors to each of them, for a dressing down. That is still a highly unusual (maybe unprecedented?) step, but on the scale of diplomatic sanctions it's at least a rung below recalling their own ambassadors.

          •  Read the article (0+ / 0-)

            instead of just copy pasting it.

            I have a 9th grade education and I'm not getting tripped up with this basic reading comprehension test.

            This

            How many nations have recalled their ambassadors from Israel-under-Netanyahu? Britain, France, Germany, Italy, and Australia at least as of this morning.
            Does not =
            Foreign Minister Bob Carr had the Israeli ambassador to his country summoned Tuesday to the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade over Israel's decision on new construction in East Jerusalem and on the West Bank, according to a statement on the ministry's website
            AT ALL.

            "the Agency continues to verify the non-diversion of declared material at these facilities and LOFs."

            by JesseCW on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 09:11:24 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  There is really no need (5+ / 0-)

              for this nastiness.

              Was an honest mistake, for goodness sake.

              •  The "STOP IT NOW" bullshit was no honest mistake. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                pot

                She didn't like being corrected she decided to pretend that someone pointing out that she was wrong was some sort of personal attack.

                It's a bullshit passive aggressive game, and a de-railment, and if I was doing it to you you'd certainly see a cause to call it out directly.

                "the Agency continues to verify the non-diversion of declared material at these facilities and LOFs."

                by JesseCW on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 09:28:06 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  You are attributing false motivations here (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  JNEREBEL, hester

                  That's unwarranted and unfair.

                  Oddly, I believe my views are pretty much on the same side as most. I've made them very explicit: I want an end to fighting. I want a carry through of the two-state solution. I want prosperity and peace for the citizens of both Israel and Palestine. I want to see Palestine develop into a strong nation-state of its own, with a rebuilt economy. I don't abide Netanyahu's building on E1 territories at all. I want anyone guilty of war crimes in this situation to be culpable for these. I want more moderate-Leftist leadership in Government on both sides. I want happiness for Palestinians and Israelis both: both deserve that. I want the borders opened, and I want trade to flourish in Palestine. I want an end to antisemitism AND to anti-Muslim sentiments as well (I'm presently about to study Arabic with a friend of mine who is Syrian, FWIW, since I hope to spend time in the Middle East in the future).  

                  Do you have a problem with this kind of hopeful perspective? What is it that you object to here?

                  Or is this your some unrelated personal grievance that predates this diary by a long, long time...

                  Click the <3 to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

                  by mahakali overdrive on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 09:52:26 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Please (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Nada Lemming

                    stop.  The only thing that we're interested in here is an accurate reading of what has occurred, and we're not at all interested in old grievances and grudges.  Nobody here has questioned your motives or your stance on Palestinian or Israeli issues.

                    I'm pretty sure it's all worked out now, based on my reading of the comments here, the various excerpts, etc.  There's no need to turn it into a pie fight.  The important thing is that we have some clarification now after an inadvertent, honest mistake was made, the mistake was corrected and there was some over sensitivity to that correction and then some overreaction after that.  But it is all worked out now.  No need to drag it out further, imho.  


                    "Justice is a commodity"

                    by joanneleon on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 12:36:18 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                •  er..maybe she was responding to comments (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  bluedust, mahakali overdrive

                  like

                  'You may have been confused by the headlines of articles you didn't read.'.

                  ???

                  Always find it hilarious how someone can come into these threads, act like a complete twit and blame it on somebody else...  

                  they're supposed to teach common courtesy in elementary school but whatever...

              •  Thank you (0+ / 0-)

                I read several articles. By "recall," I understood it to mean exactly what you've said (and Smoh too) upthread: to call back for discussions. The media's used a few terms like summons and such. I apologize about using the term "recall" because I didn't think about how it sounded permanent at the time; I meant they were "called back home." That's it.

                The nastiness is another issue, and it's not I-P based, and so that's why I would like to see it not brought into I-P diaries. If posters have personal grievances with other posters for ancient history unrelated to a topic, bringing that into a diary with lots of active participants is not fair to all of those trying to stay on track to talk about the issue right now.

                Click the <3 to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

                by mahakali overdrive on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 09:40:40 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Not to belabor the point, (0+ / 0-)

                  but I think there is still some confusion here about the "called back home" thing.

                  I just wanted to clarify a little further referring to the comment above, so that others in the community are not getting inaccurate information -- my understanding from the various articles I've read is that they are not being "called back home." I think they are being "summoned" or "called" to the foreign ministry office of the country in which they are serving in order to receive a message from that country.  I believe this is a standard protocol for registering a complaint to a country with which you have formal diplomatic relations, ambassadors, etc.

                  I also agree with your comments about dragging up ancient history. I didn't see JesseCW or anyone else do that here though, except you. As far as I can see, we are all commenting on topic and you are the one who is dragging up old arguments. Markos has advised that each conversation between kossacks in a diary should be considered a sort of a "clean slate", without dragging in old grudges or convos from another diary, etc.,  and that is exactly how it is being treated here. I don't know why we can't have this perfectly "on topic" discussion here without dragging in old stuff or mentions of old stuff. I think that is a bad idea.

                  Anyway, I have to run.  I  am just popping in here for a minute then have to log off again and continue with pile of work that I have on my plate right now, and have to deal with the kids who will be walking in the door any minute, get dinner, etc. My life is too busy to spend all day and night online arguing with people.


                  "Justice is a commodity"

                  by joanneleon on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 12:08:04 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  concentrate on what's important (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    mahakali overdrive

                    ET phoned home,
                    but when he phoned home he went home
                    ET
                    thats kinda how it's all related  

                    •  No idea (0+ / 0-)

                      what you mean by this.  

                      See, this is what I mean.

                      The whole thing has become convoluted because one person got it wrong and then refused to just get honest and admit it, and instead made it even more confusing.  

                      Phoned home? Went home?  None of the above.  Got summoned to the foreign ministry office of the country in which they served.  Did not get sent home or called home.

                      Gah.


                      "Justice is a commodity"

                      by joanneleon on Wed Dec 05, 2012 at 05:17:20 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

          •  Not a minor difference (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            corvo

            Huge difference, actually.  And geez, why the temper tantrum?  That was a really polite comment, gently correcting the mistake, I thought.  Don't understand the freak out there for pointing out your mistake.  The information you had posted, with no sourcing, was pretty grossly incorrect.  He was right to post the correction, as he did, in a very civil manner, as a service to the community.

            As trusted users, it is our responsibility to protect the integrity of the information posted here as best we can, don't you agree? Anyway, no harm no foul.  You are usually much more pleasant so we'll give you a pass.  Everybody has their cranky days.

            The language can be confusing though, I agree.

            Summoning the Israeli ambassador in your own country to give them a talking to, is one thing.  You're not kicking the Israeli ambassador out of your country, nor are you withdrawing your own ambassador from Israel.  It is a relatively minor thing... so far.  These countries have indicated that they are considering more serious actions.  But for right now it's just calling the Israeli ambassador in to express displeasure and to officially give them a message.

            Recalling your ambassador or summoning them back home - that is much more serious and that is not what has happened.  Pulling your own ambassador out of Israel or kicking the Israeli ambassador out of your country -- that is a whole different thing, much more serious, and it's a can be a cut off of diplomatic relations -- a huge deal.

            Britain and other European countries will consider "further steps" to be taken if Israel refuses to reverse its plans for settlement expansion after a wave of diplomatic protests, the foreign secretary, William Hague, has told parliament.

            Australia and Brazil joined five European countries in summoning Israeli ambassadors to hear condemnation of plans to build thousands of new settler homes and develop highly sensitive land east of Jerusalem. The Israeli announcement is seen as a direct response to the Palestinians' successful bid at the United Nations to win recognition for their state.

            http://www.guardian.co.uk/...

            Depending on how things play out, they might recall their ambassadors at some point but they have not done that.


            "Justice is a commodity"

            by joanneleon on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 10:45:24 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I wanted to make a statement (0+ / 0-)

              because I received similar comments from that poster in multiple recent I-P diaries. I would like that to cease. I don't believe the comments in this diary or other recent diaries like it have much to do with I-P, to be frank.

              On lunch break. Let's end this. You're starting posting well after I'd left for work. So stop posting. I will to. Okay?

              And bevenro makes a very, very important point upthread.

              Click the <3 to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

              by mahakali overdrive on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 01:20:39 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  Mahakali Overdrive - (0+ / 0-)

          No one is buying.

          You make repeated inaccurate statements in diaries in which I am active, I will correct you.

          That's not going to change.

          That's got nothing to do with any "biase" you've imagined.

          What you're doing is ugly, it's cowardly, it's gross, and YOU NEED TO STOP IT NOW.

          "the Agency continues to verify the non-diversion of declared material at these facilities and LOFs."

          by JesseCW on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 09:07:20 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  What? (0+ / 0-)

            Stop this. If you feel I grossly mischaracterize the situation in Israel regularly, feel free to link to these so that we can evaluate them on a one-by-one basis.

            I am not doing anything "cowardly" or "gross" and if I have made inaccurate statements regarding Israel or Palestine in my support of a two-state solution that helps bring peace and prosperity to nations in conflict, then I am glad to amend the record. But like everyone here, the situation is complicated and often shifting, and I do my best to sort news out.

            In this case, the issue was one of saying "recall" as a shorthand for "call back" or "summon back," and since I provided a news article to explain what I was reading, it's hard to understand how a particular "angle" on this was being promoted?

            I was trying to synopsize this morning's news on Israel as I'd just read it, using my own words, and to do so as objectively as possible.

            Click the <3 to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

            by mahakali overdrive on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 09:45:56 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  This is not helpful to meaninful dialogue. n/t (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bluedust, mahakali overdrive, hester
      •  Reminds me of this (0+ / 0-)

        There are no sacred cows.

        by LaEscapee on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 11:52:12 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Look, I am well aware of a small coterie (0+ / 0-)

          of specific posters who may not "like" me on this site, but dragging that into I-P diaries is really inappropriate and a waste of other posters' time.

          You posted this after I had already corrected my statement and provided my reason for stating something as if it had happened toward a more nuanced reflection that it seemed to be highly probable, as per multiple news reports, that it would be happening. I can appreciate the subtlety there, but this was a round-up of how this seems to be playing out, and it is probably how things will play out. We shall see.

          In diary after diary, if I see a pattern of specific and widespread overreaction to minior differences of opinion from posters who have historical made note of their general disdain for other posters, it makes sense to note that so that other readers AVOID getting caught up in endless and purposeless argumentation.

          So let's return to the topic at hand.

          Click the <3 to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

          by mahakali overdrive on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 01:27:21 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  This makes jesus cry (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JesseCW

            How ca I ever live knowing that when someone made a mistake on the tubes and I laughed.

            And no MO it's not that "specific posters don't like you" and I don't do I/P because people don't like President Carter but when I see funny I don't have that control mechanism that keeps me from responding.

            There are no sacred cows.

            by LaEscapee on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 04:30:10 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  You know I have something else to say (0+ / 0-)

            we all have made mistakes and made assumptions that have been proven untrue. Some of us have even made statements that were ludicrously false at times. Hopefully what happens is each of us learn from that and make sure that the next time when we offer information to be digested by the masses we check or at least we are honest about the situation.

            There are no sacred cows.

            by LaEscapee on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 04:46:39 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  The bizarre contortions you're going through (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            pot

            to avoid something as simple as admitting that you fucked up are some of the finest entertainment I've had in weeks.

            You flat out claimed half a dozen countries recalled their ambassadors.  You were entirely off base.

            So far, you've claimed that I'm some kind of awful monster who must not like you, because I pointed out your error.

            You've claimed that you really meant they summoned the Israeli ambassadors they're hosting.

            You've claimed that you really meant that you thought they were going to recall their ambassadors in the near future.

            You've then gone back to ranting about some "group" that just doesn't like you, which somehow forced you to screw up.

            On the other hand, if this was all just farce played for laughs - fair play to you.

            This place needs a PVP server.

            by JesseCW on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 05:26:49 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

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